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Trade 2018 MS 100D for 2019 Raven 100D ?

GeoX750

Member
Nov 16, 2018
256
158
Chicago
Have a blue 2018 MS 100D, Oct 2018 build, took delivery Nov 2018, now 17k miles. Paid $106.5k total with destination fee and taxes (car was $103.7k). Blue, silver wheels, black interior, AP2.5, has EAP and 72 Amp Charger.

I like EAP because smart summons could be handy in heavy rain, but NOA and parking have not been useful to me. I don't think full FSD will be here and actually useful for a long time. Have only used the 72 amp charger a few times, but its been great on a few trips. I think the new cars are only 48 amps. Added PPF on the front and 3M Crystalline tint, including the windshield.

They are offering $64K for the trade in with 17k miles now.

Its a huge hit in less than 1 year, but for an inventory 2019 Raven white, black interior, silver wheels, free SC, Tesla would take my car and $20K without FSD with all taxes (I could add FSD for $6K later). I don't think there is any actual price adjustment on the new inventory white car, so I could probably just order a blue car with the white interior I want this time. That would be $3k more.

Don't actually need a new car, but after this year Illinois is limiting its tax credit on trade-ins to the first $10k of the car's value. Where this year for my car I get about $6,400 in tax credit, next year its only about $1,000. This year's tax credit is calculated into the $20K they are offering me now. If I were to trade the car in after this year, I would lose about $5K in tax credit.

Is the more efficient, longer range, new motor and suspension, free SC worth it ? I would have to spend $20K (or $26K) (maybe add $3K for blue/white color combo).

Are there any other considerations with the Raven 2019 v 2018 I am missing ?
 

GeoX750

Member
Nov 16, 2018
256
158
Chicago
I literally just started thinking about doing this too with the onset of v10....

One question....do you have /want a sunroof?

No, I find I rarely use sunroofs. I have the glass roof and think its perfect compromise of light into the car without wind and noise.

What about v10 makes you think about making the change? For me, it's the change in the IL sales tax credit.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,677
12,542
California
For me, it's the change in the IL sales tax credit.
Personally I’d find spending $25k to save $5k, particularly on a Tesla, a losing proposition.

Is a mile of extra range worth $571 to you? That’s basically what this comes down to. 35 miles of extra range for $20,000. Assign some value to the new fancy suspension if you want, but I can’t imagine that being worth a ton to me.
 

October

Member
Oct 23, 2015
16
5
FL
I was similarly on the fence about my 2018 July build 100D and decided to pull the trigger and ordered a 2019 Raven version exactly the same specs but with FSD (2018 had EAP). Having had the Raven version now for almost a month, I am really happy I did it. Its drives like a different car. Quieter, rides/handles superbly, and definitely more efficient.
 
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Trebek1762

Let's play jeopardy
Feb 6, 2018
345
472
Wisconsin
I was similarly on the fence about my 2018 July build 100D and decided to pull the trigger and ordered a 2019 Raven version exactly the same specs but with FSD (2018 had EAP). Having had the Raven version now for almost a month, I am really happy I did it. Its drives like a different car. Quieter, rides/handles superbly, and definitely more efficient.
What did it cost you?
 

GeoX750

Member
Nov 16, 2018
256
158
Chicago
No, Illinois does not have a tax credit. The Federal tax credit is $1875 until the end of the year.

The tax credit I am referring to is the Illinois sales tax credit.

In the past, you only pay IL sales tax on the difference between the purchase price of the new car and your trade in. It avoids a double tax on some car purchases.

In 2020, I understand you will pay sales tax on the difference between the purchase price of the new and up to $10,000. You lose the sales tax basis on the value of your trade in that exceeds $10,000. Illinois sale tax can approach 9.75%, which is almost $10,000 on a $100k vehicle.
 

GeoX750

Member
Nov 16, 2018
256
158
Chicago
Personally I’d find spending $25k to save $5k, particularly on a Tesla, a losing proposition.

Is a mile of extra range worth $571 to you? That’s basically what this comes down to. 35 miles of extra range for $20,000. Assign some value to the new fancy suspension if you want, but I can’t imagine that being worth a ton to me.

I don't have free supercharging, so that is probably worth $2K.

Having a year newer car with 17k less miles is probably worth $10k ?

I have EAP instead of FSD, FSD would cost me $3K.

So with the sale tax credit, let's say its only $4k.

So I can justify $19k with these items above ?

You then get the longer range (less time charging ?), a bit better acceleration and ride and brand new car.

Is that worth the remaining $6k ?
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 7, 2019
319
101
Los Angeles
If you have the time and money then you should do it . If you can think of better things to do with your time and money, then it's not enough of an upgrade, since you lose some features to gain others
 
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kizamybute'

Member
Aug 24, 2019
110
194
Los Angeles, CA
If money isn't really an object, then go for it. The Raven is notably superior in terms of suspension, range, efficiency and screen interface. But, is it really worth probably $25,000 to go from an 2018? I don't think so. I got the Raven and absolutely love it. But, I came from a 2016 AP1 car.

As an EAP car, to date, you have every feature that a new FSD car has, so no gain there.

The adaptive suspension is AMAZING. But that depends on what type of a ride you like. It's more Cadillac like rather than sporty. Although, it has a sport mode that brings the ride quality back in line with what you have now. If you prefer the sporty, stiffer ride quality, then this is a non-factor for you. I love the softer ride, the way it handles bumps in the road, so much smoother. That alone was almost worth the upgrade.

The web browser actually works reasonable well in the Raven due to the new interface. If you use the web browser, then it's notable. If you don't, yes the interaction is smoother with the Raven than the 2018 and prior, but, not enough to warrant $25,000.

Range is a big one. If you need it. For most people, anything over 275 to 300 miles is just excess. For me, the only time additional range becomes beneficial, is if it allows me to completely skip a Supercharger. But then can your bladder skip that stop? with 40 more miles in range, it doesn't really accomplish that. It does require less charging time, but again, $25,000 worth? Probably not.

Efficiency is notably superior. Hence, less wh used per mile. For me, about 30 wh/mi less. So, it costs a little less to charge this car. Being that it's the same battery size as your car, naturally the only way to accomplish that is to use less wh/mi. So the range and efficiency are directly related.

It's a great car, I LOVE IT. Prior to driving the Raven, I would have said it would be stupid to even consider upgrading from a 2017 or 2018. After driving it, it certainly brings some validity to the consideration. Never would have imagined the suspension being that much better or the efficiency being that much better. But, if I had the 2018, or even a 2017, even with my knowledge of both cars, I would wait for the next update from Tesla. The cars still look identical. At least compared to my 2016 seats, the Raven seats are much more comfortable. Not sure if they are Raven specific or if that change was made at the same time they switched to Vegan materials? So you might have the same seats in a 2018.

For $25,000, as wonderful as the changes to the Raven are, I don't think they're worth quite that much. As Tesla always does, something better will be out in the next several months. For me, in your shoes, that would probably be the time to make the switch.

In terms of functionality, the most notable change will be the suspension. The rest of the changes are minor enough that they're just slight improvements. So that's the primary question to ask yourself. How important is the improved ride quality to you? That's really the one change you'd actually notice for the $25,000.

Hope that helps.
 

GeoX750

Member
Nov 16, 2018
256
158
Chicago
If money isn't really an object, then go for it. The Raven is notably superior in terms of suspension, range, efficiency and screen interface. But, is it really worth probably $25,000 to go from an 2018? I don't think so. I got the Raven and absolutely love it. But, I came from a 2016 AP1 car.

As an EAP car, to date, you have every feature that a new FSD car has, so no gain there.

The adaptive suspension is AMAZING. But that depends on what type of a ride you like. It's more Cadillac like rather than sporty. Although, it has a sport mode that brings the ride quality back in line with what you have now. If you prefer the sporty, stiffer ride quality, then this is a non-factor for you. I love the softer ride, the way it handles bumps in the road, so much smoother. That alone was almost worth the upgrade.

The web browser actually works reasonable well in the Raven due to the new interface. If you use the web browser, then it's notable. If you don't, yes the interaction is smoother with the Raven than the 2018 and prior, but, not enough to warrant $25,000.

Range is a big one. If you need it. For most people, anything over 275 to 300 miles is just excess. For me, the only time additional range becomes beneficial, is if it allows me to completely skip a Supercharger. But then can your bladder skip that stop? with 40 more miles in range, it doesn't really accomplish that. It does require less charging time, but again, $25,000 worth? Probably not.

Efficiency is notably superior. Hence, less wh used per mile. For me, about 30 wh/mi less. So, it costs a little less to charge this car. Being that it's the same battery size as your car, naturally the only way to accomplish that is to use less wh/mi. So the range and efficiency are directly related.

It's a great car, I LOVE IT. Prior to driving the Raven, I would have said it would be stupid to even consider upgrading from a 2017 or 2018. After driving it, it certainly brings some validity to the consideration. Never would have imagined the suspension being that much better or the efficiency being that much better. But, if I had the 2018, or even a 2017, even with my knowledge of both cars, I would wait for the next update from Tesla. The cars still look identical. At least compared to my 2016 seats, the Raven seats are much more comfortable. Not sure if they are Raven specific or if that change was made at the same time they switched to Vegan materials? So you might have the same seats in a 2018.

For $25,000, as wonderful as the changes to the Raven are, I don't think they're worth quite that much. As Tesla always does, something better will be out in the next several months. For me, in your shoes, that would probably be the time to make the switch.

In terms of functionality, the most notable change will be the suspension. The rest of the changes are minor enough that they're just slight improvements. So that's the primary question to ask yourself. How important is the improved ride quality to you? That's really the one change you'd actually notice for the $25,000.

Hope that helps.

Yes, that is useful advice both ways. I think the strong opinion on the adaptive suspension is particularly helpful.

One issue is, I don't look at it as $25k for getting a car with the Raven update. My car is a year old with 17k miles. The 1 yr use and depreciation will effectively be erased by a new car for the $25k. The Raven range and suspension updates so that I am not just driving the identical car, and getting any future FSD improvements, helps justify it further.

Also, I could still get the $1875 tax credit, which will be gone shortly.

Just do what you feel like doing.

I love this advice. I often feel the need for justification to excuse myself for doing things that I should be capable of just doing. This is what I am going to follow.
 
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SoCal Buzz

Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2018
484
388
Orange County, CA, USA
One issue is, I don't look at it as $25k for getting a car with the Raven update. My car is a year old with 17k miles. The 1 yr use and depreciation will effectively be erased by a new car for the $25k. The Raven range and suspension updates so that I am not just driving the identical car, and getting any future FSD improvements, helps justify it further.

Well your 1-year depreciation may be "erased" for $25 K but will immediately be followed by another one with the new car soon as it's delivered. I have the same 2018 as you and with EAP, MCU2, etc. I'm enjoying all the benefits of v10 including AP, Advanced Summon and Entertainment options. We currently get every AP feature possible and could upgrade to "FSD" for $3 K (if there was ever a real difference in functions, which I find unlikely in the next year+). I feel very fortunate to have picked the perfect time to upgrade, including capture of the full $7500 fed tax credit in 2018.

The range on 100D is already exceptional and despite very long commute I've never even thought about it while charging to 80-90%. I waited quite some time to upgrade my original 2013, and cannot imagine flipping this new one in a year for a nifty suspension. There will always be more hardware improvements next year. YMMV
 
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Trebek1762

Let's play jeopardy
Feb 6, 2018
345
472
Wisconsin
Curious to see if y'all think it would be worth 22k to upgrade from a 75D AP2.5 / MCU1 to a long range 100D with MCU2 (pre-raven). Everything else between the 2 cars is equal. would love a raven, but no sunroof option kills that.
 
Nov 8, 2018
474
284
LX
I don't have free supercharging, so that is probably worth $2K.

Having a year newer car with 17k less miles is probably worth $10k ?

I have EAP instead of FSD, FSD would cost me $3K.

So with the sale tax credit, let's say its only $4k.

So I can justify $19k with these items above ?

You then get the longer range (less time charging ?), a bit better acceleration and ride and brand new car.

Is that worth the remaining $6k ?

If the $20.000 you have to pay are not really an issue to you, i say go for it.
In the end i think you are already into do it.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,296
6,861
Canyon Lake,CA
Spoke to accountant and upgrading from 2017 X75 to 2019 Long Range was a financial no brainer.

Sold old car independantly, so got thousands more than Tesla Trade in offer. Get + $6,000 in State/Fed/Utility rebates. Thanks to Section 179 fully depreciated 2017, and will again fully depreciate 2019. ($86,000 business deduction most fully wipes away my corporate profit taxes).

This much more than wipes out the $20K differential in price it cost me to upgrade.

Got 3 more years of warranty, new tires/brakes, reset the clock on maintenance, fantastic new suspension, +100 miles greater range, new V3 computer, faster acceleration, better handling, more comfy seats, rear seat warmers, no more yellow border on display, no more tiny pits on windshield, no more refraction from windshield (seeing double taillights), premium interior with better sounding audio, cornering lights, metal trim on frunk/trunk, front end shudder is gone and fresh windshield wipers.

Biggest difference was the adaptable suspension. Feels like a Rolls Royce. Most all impacts are reduced and the tone of the impacts are much deeper. Really a super quality feel. The new range came in handy when we just took a 1,000 mile shakedown cruise (absolutely no issues) was able to skip several Supercharger stops and range anxiety now is non-existent. We went from San Diego, up to Mammoth Lake (one stop) drove from the East Gate of Yosemite all through the park, lunch at Ahwahnee, and out the other West gate. Still had 100 miles of range when we go to our next Supercharger. Went over to San Francisco for a few nights. Drove down PCH, through Big Sur (without charging).

For the heck of it, took very beautiful twisting back roads of 166 and 33 over to Ojai (Handled fantastic) and then back home. Turned out to be the best get away ever.

Amazed at how much faster the 2019 (with new E series 100Kwh battery charged). Got caught out several times with battery full message in very short order.

I see people all the time, complaining about Elon's tweets. Think they are totally missing the point of just what fantastic things he is accomplishing.

Best car ever!
 
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AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,520
3,888
Northern California
I don't have free supercharging, so that is probably worth $2K.

Having a year newer car with 17k less miles is probably worth $10k ?

I have EAP instead of FSD, FSD would cost me $3K.

So with the sale tax credit, let's say its only $4k.

So I can justify $19k with these items above ?

You then get the longer range (less time charging ?), a bit better acceleration and ride and brand new car.

Is that worth the remaining $6k ?
When you put it like that, I I don’t think you can afford NOT to upgrade!
Do it!
 

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