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Trade war and Tesla Canada Sales

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Interesting take on purchase choices.

My 2c.

I bought the Smart ED for many reasons, but one "bonus" was that it was produced in a factory on the border of Germany and France within a few km of my European ancestors, the addresses on birth certificates are from the local church. Feels nice to have that kind of connection.

I describe our Tesla Model S as "made in California and Japan", I have had family live (now or in the past) in both places. Again, feels good to have that connection.

At no time did I consider Tesla a "made in USA" car. ;-)
 
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What fully electric German or Japanese car are you going to buy at the same price point as a Volt? .

We've been pretty happy with our 2014 Smart ED (French/German). About 10,000 in gasoline savings over the last 4 years. So while it may not be a cramped 4 seater sub-compact like the Volt, which is a fairly nice hybrid car, as a daily driver the Smart is beating every other vehicle on the road for price efficiency.
 
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Have you evaluated the finished trade agreement? What in it offends you? Not words, actions are what I'm interested in. I've heard from Wall Street and their marketing teams, they say it sucks.
Words also matter. People listen to words - and there has been unnecessary hostile remarks directed at long time friends to the North.
 
Words also matter. People listen to words - and there has been unnecessary hostile remarks directed at long time friends to the North.
Dawn of a new reality. Trump is working for USA advantage and Canada is making a fuss of it. As far as mean words, it’s the real world. Mean words played a significant role in what happened in Singapore last night
 
Words also matter. People listen to words - and there has been unnecessary hostile remarks directed at long time friends to the North.

Actually, we have spent more words on our own people by a wide margin. And nowhere near as polite as 'hostile words' would be classified. I'd get banned off this board permanently for calling somebody's child what a Canadian political commentator recently did on national TV. “If you are worried about the death of civility, don’t sweat it,” the Canadian news commentor said. “Civility is just nice words.”

We even had news agencies trying to ignite WWIII, and famous people saying we need another Great Depression to fix things.

Until Trump moves troops up to the border, I'm going to assume what he's doing is the art of negotiation. Lately Neville Chamberlain clones have been running the show and those of us in the manufacturing related sectors are Czechoslovakian it seems.
 
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Dawn of a new reality. Trump is working for USA advantage and Canada is making a fuss of it. As far as mean words, it’s the real world. Mean words played a significant role in what happened in Singapore last night

Actually, we have spent more words on our own people by a wide margin. And nowhere near as polite as 'hostile words' would be classified. I'd get banned off this board permanently for calling somebody's child what a Canadian political commentator recently did on national TV. “If you are worried about the death of civility, don’t sweat it,” the Canadian news commentor said. “Civility is just nice words.”

We even had news agencies trying to ignite WWIII, and famous people saying we need another Great Depression to fix things.

Until Trump moves troops up to the border, I'm going to assume what he's doing is the art of negotiation. Lately Neville Chamberlain clones have been running the show and those of us in the manufacturing related sectors are Czechoslovakian it seems.

This is not 'Art of Negotiation''. It's what some think is negotiation. It's thuggish. I've negotiated some fairly significant large deals for Fortune 50 companies. And I would have been fired if I'd resorted to these tactics. Number one rule is to treat potential partners with respect - if you bully someone into doing what you want and/or embarrass them publicly, you will never be able to trust them. It's a losing approach - unless you just don't care about future relationship. Building trust with a supplier or partner is the mark of an ethical & forward-looking company. Lose your ethical position and you might win this one deal, but you've lost the future.

And Singapore isn't a done deal. We finally took a meeting with a despot, gave him legitimacy without requiring anything ... I'd say KJU already has the upper hand. It remains to be seen if it benefits the rest of us.
 
What fully electric German or Japanese car are you going to buy at the same price point as a Volt? The Taycan? The e-Tron? These are over double the price and still concepts.

Maybe the i3 if you want something that looks like a Fisher Price car.
Won’t be buying for several years....will be lots of options available then. If this trade war nonsense does not occur a Tesla Model 3 or Y would probably be among my first choices. Will see what happens.
 
Interesting take on purchase choices.

My 2c.

I bought the Smart ED for many reasons, but one "bonus" was that it was produced in a factory on the border of Germany and France within a few km of my European ancestors, the addresses on birth certificates are from the local church. Feels nice to have that kind of connection.

I describe our Tesla Model S as "made in California and Japan", I have had family live (now or in the past) in both places. Again, feels good to have that connection.

At no time did I consider Tesla a "made in USA" car. ;-)
Exactly. In many people loyalty matters. And I am one.

What I find interesting is just how effective the politics of resentment,as practiced by Trump, really works. But in the non-obvious sense, not of his own supporters, but of what it does to me. I am so offended by his bullying manner in dealing with Canada that I find myself seething with resentments of my own. Trade has been beneficial to both sides and we have been allies for generations, yet he has absolutely no sense of loyalty or fairness.
 
This is not 'Art of Negotiation''. It's what some think is negotiation. It's thuggish. I've negotiated some fairly significant large deals for Fortune 50 companies. And I would have been fired if I'd resorted to these tactics. Number one rule is to treat potential partners with respect - if you bully someone into doing what you want and/or embarrass them publicly, you will never be able to trust them. It's a losing approach - unless you just don't care about future relationship. Building trust with a supplier or partner is the mark of an ethical & forward-looking company. Lose your ethical position and you might win this one deal, but you've lost the future.

And Singapore isn't a done deal. We finally took a meeting with a despot, gave him legitimacy without requiring anything ... I'd say KJU already has the upper hand. It remains to be seen if it benefits the rest of us.
Yes respect deserves respect and Trudeau is a backstabber. Also as all Trump haters you just won’t give the guy any credit no matter what he does huh? Kim agreed to denuclearize. I’d say that is requiring something. But the size and cost of their lunch seems to be more important.
 
This is not 'Art of Negotiation''. It's what some think is negotiation. It's thuggish. I've negotiated some fairly significant large deals for Fortune 50 companies. And I would have been fired if I'd resorted to these tactics. Number one rule is to treat potential partners with respect - if you bully someone into doing what you want and/or embarrass them publicly, you will never be able to trust them. It's a losing approach - unless you just don't care about future relationship. Building trust with a supplier or partner is the mark of an ethical & forward-looking company. Lose your ethical position and you might win this one deal, but you've lost the future.

And Singapore isn't a done deal. We finally took a meeting with a despot, gave him legitimacy without requiring anything ... I'd say KJU already has the upper hand. It remains to be seen if it benefits the rest of us.

The multiple polite and diplomatic efforts failed miserably with NK as their nuclear testing has proven. Chamberlain and the UN failed again.

If you were negotiating a business contract for decades again and again, and every time, you lost, do you keep doing the same thing? I hope not.

Kim did not wear his military hardware, he was dressed as a civilian, and was somewhat deferential to the POTUS. But the main thing is there were the first highest level negotiations. AFTER Donny lit him up in the press. Polite has not worked. Embargoes have not worked.

The future remains unknown. The Korean War was not ended, which is still on the table. Ending wargames in exchange for a promise of a nuclear-free Korea was a teaser. Both sides have to establish trust on those points for negotiations to progress further. We did not promise to remove the US presence in SK. We can re-establish wargames quicker than NK can re-establish nuclear testing.
 
Yes respect deserves respect and Trudeau is a backstabber. Also as all Trump haters you just won’t give the guy any credit no matter what he does huh? Kim agreed to denuclearize. I’d say that is requiring something. But the size and cost of their lunch seems to be more important.

If Trump turned water into wine at the lunch, the US press would claim Trump is a raging drunk, even though he does not drink.

This has been going on awhile. Trump gives the middle class a tax break, and the millionaire 'farmers' like Pelosi call it crumbs. She sells $10k a year in grapes to write off her mansion as a farm. She does not even begin to understand how the peasants feel about her saying that. Actions = Tax break - Trump. Words = Peasants can't be trusted with their own money - Pelosi.
 
Yes respect deserves respect and Trudeau is a backstabber. Also as all Trump haters you just won’t give the guy any credit no matter what he does huh? Kim agreed to denuclearize. I’d say that is requiring something. But the size and cost of their lunch seems to be more important.
Uhhh, you seem to have assumed a lot of what I never said. Size and cost of lunch being more important? ?? Not going to argue over something never said by me or implied.

So yes, North Korea has gotten this far before. This is not new ground that's been gained by Trump (other than saying what a great guy KJU is and how much he loves his people). As far as Kim agreeing to denuclearize being 'something', I'm gonna have to disagree that anything new has happened. Let's look at history and see how many times NK has agreed to that:

Dec 1985: NK signs Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons, contingent on US withdrawing nuclear weapons from SK. WE take several years to do that, NK increases its nuclear position.

Jan 1992: NK signs the Joint Declaration of the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, saying they will not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapon. Feb 1993, NK violates commitments to inspections.

Oct 1994: NK promises to stop plutonium production in exchange for goods.

In 2002 US discovers that NK has been secretly stashing uranium for nuclear weapons. All international inspectors are kicked out.

2003, NK withdraws from treaty.

Sept 2005: NK agrees in talks to abandon all nuclear weapons & existing programs. Details can't be agreed upon, so nothing happens.

Oct 2007: NK releases statement declaring all nuclear programs shut down and to not transfer materials, tech, etc - but no one agrees on verification process. (And nothing happens. Again.)

Feb 2012: NK agrees to suspend all tests & uranium enrichment. They say inspectors will be allowed in exchange for supplies. Then, 2 weeks later NK announces plans to launch satellite, killing the deal.​

I may have gotten a detail or two wrong - but this is substantially what's happened so far. (By 'so far' I mean 'nothing'.) It's not that I won't give him credit. I'm not giving credit for something that hasn't occurred. And I'm not discounting history.
 
China's base political philosophy has been a communist world since Mao. By taking it slower, and going the economic route instead of a military one, they are succeeding where the USSR could not. One of the basic tenets of communist thought is that capitalism will lose because of greed. Capitalists will sell out their freedom for money, and China is counting on this.

This has never changed.

We in the West have been brainwashed to think the word "communist" is automatically bad. Remember 1984 or Animal Farm? We were taught to be scared of those scenarios when I was a school kid.

Anyway, "Communism" is more like a marketing term when objectively looking at life in China anyways. The gap between the very poor and ultra rich is higher in China than Canada and even the USA. Unions are almost non-existent in China. Most Chinese have very little government health coverage. Who's already more communist in pure terms - China or Canada?
 
Have you evaluated the finished trade agreement? What in it offends you? Not words, actions are what I'm interested in. I've heard from Wall Street and their marketing teams, they say it sucks.

Yes, that is what they say. Been hearing it on TV for the past 3 days. That is what they tell the poor retail customers - but they are doing the opposite with their own money and institutions. Look at the markets to see where people are talking with their money. Take your own advice - actions, not words.
 
Actually, we have spent more words on our own people by a wide margin. And nowhere near as polite as 'hostile words' would be classified. I'd get banned off this board permanently for calling somebody's child what a Canadian political commentator recently did on national TV. “If you are worried about the death of civility, don’t sweat it,” the Canadian news commentor said. “Civility is just nice words.”

We even had news agencies trying to ignite WWIII, and famous people saying we need another Great Depression to fix things.

Until Trump moves troops up to the border, I'm going to assume what he's doing is the art of negotiation. Lately Neville Chamberlain clones have been running the show and those of us in the manufacturing related sectors are Czechoslovakian it seems.

HELLO! I finally found the other conservative on this forum, nice to meet you!
 
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His words are meant to discredit the media who are shining a light on his actions and inaction. His words are to undermine law enforcement/watch dogs and federal agencies, he purposely tries to sow confusion so he can govern in chaos. Believe Trump for the truth no one else...

His words are to sow social unrest, remember when white supremacists Nazis were just as "fine" as anti white supremacists Nazis?
No one trust this postus the US is no longer the authority. Are any agreements signed with a US binding on them?
 
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So yes, North Korea has gotten this far before. ...

Sort of. Nothing was written in stone in the last 20 hours. So the last 20 hours have not accomplished any more than the last 20 years.

However, we have never tried to threaten NK with military intervention. Nor have we started talks between the top leaders. Nor have we promised to flip the safety on the rifle before. Wargames were never negotiable before, IIRC, because of SK interests. NK has continued to attack SK now and then.
 
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