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Traded my M3P for an RS3 - My thoughts on both cars for what it's worth

I think M3P is extremely fun to drive. more fun than any ICE cars.
To each their own of course, but I'm not with you on this one. The rest of your list is reasonable. Although it takes about 3 minutes for the Audi oil temps to come up to temp. In my M3P, it might take 20 miles for the battery to warm up and sometimes in the winter, it never did. Yes, I know you can precondition but sometimes I don't have every trip planned. I've never "fought" heat soak in my life. If it's a thing, it's rarely a problem for me personally.
 

T3SLAROD

Active Member
May 14, 2019
1,311
1,564
SoCal
You may not know this, but it takes about 2-3 miles of city driving to get the engine oil temperature up to the operating temp where oil can freely can flow through all the components, especially through the turbo(s). If you constantly drive hard right after you start it, your turbo(s) will not last long time and accelerate the wear on the ICE components.
During the summer months you get heat soak during 20-30 minute city traffic driving. You don't need to worry about SoC for 20-30 mins of driving in that condition.
Try to do heel and toe in I-95 during rush hour traffic for 1-2 hours every day.
You do know that running engine while park will wear out the ICE components and produce the most emissions, right? It is bad for the timing chain/belt components. Also, try to do that in your house garage. I hope your house is air tight, so that all the exhaust fume doesn't seriously hurt your family.

How exactly are you having more fun in a M3P stuck in traffic than an ICE?

It actually takes at least 15 minutes to get everything going, not 2-3 miles. Who drives hard coming out of their garage even in an EV?

If your driving in traffic, heat soak doesn’t matter, you’re stuck in traffic, it’s not like the ICE vehicle is going to shut down on you because of heat soak 🤣

Why would I sit in my garage without the garage door open or immediately get the car out?

So basically you are saying the M3P is the funner car to be stuck in traffic……
 
Me. I exit like Batman from the batcave :D I usually get a good 4 wheel chirp too 😅

I did too in my M3P-. Because was a lease, but also being an EV, I did not ever worry about pushing it right from the start. It was something that I really liked about EV's coming from many turbo cars previously, where I would drive them so gently until reaching normal temps
 
Same boat. Depends on your definition of "better" I suppose. The Tesla will accelerate faster at those stop signs in town. It will do so with no sounds, no shifting and no fuss. Whether you think that is better is personal. Is it more practical? Yes. Is it more fun? No.

The fuel barrier is real. Can't argue with that. Gas stations suck.

I appreciate you being kind of a sounding board, sounds like we're pretty like minded with vehicles.

I'm not in a rush, especially because I need to fully execute this thing I have going on before I'd do anything (in terms of buying something different) and that's about 2 months.

I get to to the end of year and I've lost interest and decide to keep the Tesla, I'm definitely going to do some wheels (something lighter and forged, a staggered setup) and coilovers, I think that will really improve my enjoyment of the car. I think being mod-free is part of my "angst", since I've never left any of my previous ICE vehicles stock, heck, I've had mods months before the car arrived in some cases :D
 

nate704

Active Member
Apr 20, 2021
1,746
1,656
Virginia
How exactly are you having more fun in a M3P stuck in traffic than an ICE?

It actually takes at least 15 minutes to get everything going, not 2-3 miles. Who drives hard coming out of their garage even in an EV?

If your driving in traffic, heat soak doesn’t matter, you’re stuck in traffic, it’s not like the ICE vehicle is going to shut down on you because of heat soak 🤣

Why would I sit in my garage without the garage door open or immediately get the car out?

So basically you are saying the M3P is the funner car to be stuck in traffic……
wow. your deflect the topics like politicians! LOL
Did I say being stuck in the traffic is enjoyable? I was countering your statement "heel-toeing a manual is much funner than instant torque" which is not fun in any daily driving including the traffic.
It take about 10-15 miles to go 2-3 miles in a city during rush hour traffic. It take 45-50 minutes in NYC to go 1-2 miles. I am not here to argue how much time it take to optimal operating temp since every car and every engine is different. My point was/is that you have to keep watching those parameters (if you are a car guy and care about the car) vs. you just get in and hit the pedal and go as fast as you want to go right off the bat.
Again, heat soak is another thing you care if you are a car guy, but after sitting in a traffic and traffic opens up, now your engine is heat soaked which will not go away right on the spot, so you will have reduced power. (just one example here).
The preheat and precool can happen anywhere anytime for EVs (Tesla for this example), but you will have to pay attention if it is good to run the engine or not. I think it is illegal to run the engine idle in NJ (I see the signs on NJ Tnpk rest areas all the time).
Yes, Tesla cars are way funner and enjoyable in traffic since you can simply engage AutoPilot or FSD and relax.
 

T3SLAROD

Active Member
May 14, 2019
1,311
1,564
SoCal
wow. your deflect the topics like politicians! LOL
Did I say being stuck in the traffic is enjoyable? I was countering your statement "heel-toeing a manual is much funner than instant torque" which is not fun in any daily driving including the traffic.
It take about 10-15 miles to go 2-3 miles in a city during rush hour traffic. It take 45-50 minutes in NYC to go 1-2 miles. I am not here to argue how much time it take to optimal operating temp since every car and every engine is different. My point was/is that you have to keep watching those parameters (if you are a car guy and care about the car) vs. you just get in and hit the pedal and go as fast as you want to go right off the bat.
Again, heat soak is another thing you care if you are a car guy, but after sitting in a traffic and traffic opens up, now your engine is heat soaked which will not go away right on the spot, so you will have reduced power. (just one example here).
The preheat and precool can happen anywhere anytime for EVs (Tesla for this example), but you will have to pay attention if it is good to run the engine or not. I think it is illegal to run the engine idle in NJ (I see the signs on NJ Tnpk rest areas all the time).
Yes, Tesla cars are way funner and enjoyable in traffic since you can simply engage AutoPilot or FSD and relax.

You chose to go the traffic route with the “heel toe” and chose to go the traffic route with “heat soak” where exactly did I deflect when you are the one who brought up traffic?
 

tm1v2

Active Member
Oct 18, 2021
2,329
2,012
USA
I got to take a 2022 RS5 Sportback (4 door fastback) for a quick drive the other day. Around town ONLY, couldn't evaluate handling. Really just a quick drive not a thorough evaluation test. And I'm well aware RS5 is not RS3, completely different chassis and drivetrain, they probably feel quite different to drive. :)

RS5 strong points (no particular order):
  • Looks great, outside and inside.
  • Interior is nice. MUCH better than the previous generation which was kind of mediocre.
    • Audi button overload is still a thing though, but it is part of the Audi aesthetic.
    • The beltline felt high. On the flip side the A pillars are thin by modern standards. So overall visibility was fine as modern cars go. (Nothing like old school cars but no modern car is.)
  • Nice engine sound.
  • Exhaust noise level adjusts with driving mode. This is actually pretty cool and a nice feature for a sporty family car.
  • I think turbo lag was very minimal (but see below for why this was a little difficult to tell...)
  • Suspension felt nice driving around town, sporty without being harsh. Comfort mode was just slightly floaty but hey it's comfort mode. Auto and Dynamic seemed good. Much better feeling suspension than older Audis in my experience.
  • Perforated leather steering wheel felt great.
  • The overall level of sportiness vs comfort felt just right for its purpose - as a sporty but very family-friendly car. No it's not a raw sports car, at all, and a BMW M3 is probably more exciting to drive, but as a fast, sporty daily driver family car I think the RS5 Sportback has its own sweet spot.
  • Rear seat should be quite comfortable for shorter people (see below for the downside).
  • Hatchback!!! Miss this in the Model 3.

RS5 weak points:
  • Automatic only. :( I can't emphasize enough how much that sucks. :( The auto was technically very good! Very smooth and quick shifting. But it means your right foot is not in sync with the gearbox, and the transmission is often in a different gear than I want.
  • Waiting for the automatic to decide to downshift made the engine feel WAY more laggy than it actually was.
  • Yes it has paddle shifters. Those never do it for me. They lack the mechanical connection to the gear change you get with a manual, so you don't know by feel when the change is done. Maybe I could get used to them if I actually owned a car with them, but hopefully I'll never need to own an automatic. (Manual ICE or direct drive EV only for me.)
  • Not enough rear headroom, my head was up against the ceiling in the back seat. This is a shame because the rear seat itself was surprisingly comfortable as mentioned, but I basically didn't fit there. Just needs the roofline raised another inch or ideally two for most adults to fit...but I guess it wouldn't look good enough anymore?
  • Not a sleeper, at all. Nothing subtle about that RS5! Attracts stoplight racers. :( It does look sweet! I just don't like the attention.
  • Steering ratio is definitely slower than Model 3. This is very much a personal preference thing, but I've always liked a quick steering ratio.
  • Only one wireless phone charging pad. (Okay okay this is super minor.)
Hopefully I'll have a chance to really test and evaluate its handling sometime. In this casual drive it felt like Audi has come a long way in their suspension and chassis development. I know it still has the engine up ahead of the front axle (like my Subarus did), so I'm curious how apparent that still is when driving the car hard. (Yes it does make for a good AWD layout - it's a tradeoff.)
 
It's more like 2.5 years and 20 percent which again is pretty solid. I think we are interpreting the data differently. Anyway, I fully expect higher end teslas like the m3p to follow the same trend as every other luxury/sports car. Tesla won't be spared from depreciation once things normalize and its unrealistic to think otherwise.
I tend to agree. I bought my 2015 Model S in 2019 and it was 42% depreciated from its original MSRP, even with low miles. So the depreciation curve was normal before covid even with Tesla.
 
I tend to agree. I bought my 2015 Model S in 2019 and it was 42% depreciated from its original MSRP, even with low miles. So the depreciation curve was normal before covid even with Tesla.
It's already happening. Reports of significantly lowered Model 3 trade in values are all over reddit. Yes, some people think people are waiting for the price drops for tax credits etc. and some of that may be true but the bubble on used cars is bursting in real time and Tesla won't be spared. There's a ton of used model 3's around these days. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. The paradigm will be shifting somewhat since EVs will depreciate for different reasons that ICE. Namely, as technology improves, range, charging speeds etc. will render older EVs obsolete. Kind of like smart phones. It's going to be fascinating to watch how it all shakes out over the next 10 years. I'm pretty sure i got out of my Tesla at the last minute. My dealer hasn't moved my car in 6 weeks and has already dropped the price twice.
 
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I got to take a 2022 RS5 Sportback (4 door fastback) for a quick drive the other day. Around town ONLY, couldn't evaluate handling. Really just a quick drive not a thorough evaluation test. And I'm well aware RS5 is not RS3, completely different chassis and drivetrain, they probably feel quite different to drive. :)

RS5 strong points (no particular order):
  • Looks great, outside and inside.
  • Interior is nice. MUCH better than the previous generation which was kind of mediocre.
    • Audi button overload is still a thing though, but it is part of the Audi aesthetic.
    • The beltline felt high. On the flip side the A pillars are thin by modern standards. So overall visibility was fine as modern cars go. (Nothing like old school cars but no modern car is.)
  • Nice engine sound.
  • Exhaust noise level adjusts with driving mode. This is actually pretty cool and a nice feature for a sporty family car.
  • I think turbo lag was very minimal (but see below for why this was a little difficult to tell...)
  • Suspension felt nice driving around town, sporty without being harsh. Comfort mode was just slightly floaty but hey it's comfort mode. Auto and Dynamic seemed good. Much better feeling suspension than older Audis in my experience.
  • Perforated leather steering wheel felt great.
  • The overall level of sportiness vs comfort felt just right for its purpose - as a sporty but very family-friendly car. No it's not a raw sports car, at all, and a BMW M3 is probably more exciting to drive, but as a fast, sporty daily driver family car I think the RS5 Sportback has its own sweet spot.
  • Rear seat should be quite comfortable for shorter people (see below for the downside).
  • Hatchback!!! Miss this in the Model 3.

RS5 weak points:
  • Automatic only. :( I can't emphasize enough how much that sucks. :( The auto was technically very good! Very smooth and quick shifting. But it means your right foot is not in sync with the gearbox, and the transmission is often in a different gear than I want.
  • Waiting for the automatic to decide to downshift made the engine feel WAY more laggy than it actually was.
  • Yes it has paddle shifters. Those never do it for me. They lack the mechanical connection to the gear change you get with a manual, so you don't know by feel when the change is done. Maybe I could get used to them if I actually owned a car with them, but hopefully I'll never need to own an automatic. (Manual ICE or direct drive EV only for me.)
  • Not enough rear headroom, my head was up against the ceiling in the back seat. This is a shame because the rear seat itself was surprisingly comfortable as mentioned, but I basically didn't fit there. Just needs the roofline raised another inch or ideally two for most adults to fit...but I guess it wouldn't look good enough anymore?
  • Not a sleeper, at all. Nothing subtle about that RS5! Attracts stoplight racers. :( It does look sweet! I just don't like the attention.
  • Steering ratio is definitely slower than Model 3. This is very much a personal preference thing, but I've always liked a quick steering ratio.
  • Only one wireless phone charging pad. (Okay okay this is super minor.)
Hopefully I'll have a chance to really test and evaluate its handling sometime. In this casual drive it felt like Audi has come a long way in their suspension and chassis development. I know it still has the engine up ahead of the front axle (like my Subarus did), so I'm curious how apparent that still is when driving the car hard. (Yes it does make for a good AWD layout - it's a tradeoff.)
Not saying you can in the aidi, but in my last car (e92 M3), you could knock the gear selector forwards or back to change gear. I found (especially as it was an underpowered NA car), it would do stupid stuff like switch into 4th at 40mph which was very slow. Think I tried it in auto twice in 4 years and hated it both times. Still miss my previous car to that a 996 turbo. That got alot of abuse and clocked up 100k miles before I sold it, can't say I ever noticed heatsoak, but that's as it was designed properly.
 
Not saying you can in the aidi, but in my last car (e92 M3), you could knock the gear selector forwards or back to change gear. I found (especially as it was an underpowered NA car), it would do stupid stuff like switch into 4th at 40mph which was very slow. Think I tried it in auto twice in 4 years and hated it both times. Still miss my previous car to that a 996 turbo. That got alot of abuse and clocked up 100k miles before I sold it, can't say I ever noticed heatsoak, but that's as it was designed properly.

Yeah...thats not fair. A Porsche 911 turbo will be more fun than anything Tesla has every made. Maybe the new Roadster coming out will change that but yeah...911 for the win.
 

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