Traded my M3P for an RS3 - My thoughts on both cars for what it's worth

[Apprunner]

Having switched to 18s on my M3P, and then separately installed coilovers, I can say they both play a significant part in the ride and handling - different parts. Neither is a substitute for the other.

My late 2021 M3P came with a pretty soft, almost bouncy suspension. Rode alright (nothing special), better than a 2021 MYLR at least. Handled like crap when pushed hard. The M3P I test drove felt exactly the same (and was built within a week or two of the one I purchased).

The coilovers I went with are firmer than stock suspension (firmer springs), you can tell, but when the going gets rough and fast they actually ride MUCH better than stock. Tesla definitely missed the mark on the stock suspension, they could've made it ride better or handle better or even both, with no real downside. But I think they prioritized cheap cost even for the M3P.

An early Model 3 that I drove again recently (I briefly drove the same car when it was new) rode and handled firmer than I recall my late 2021 feeling before I modded it. And yeah the older ones have more wind noise too. NVH is just better on the newer Model 3's.

TBH though, I've never been impressed by the ride or handling of the smaller Audis. Every A4/S4 I've been in kind of rode like crap for a "luxury" car, and the handling wasn't anything special either out of the box. A3 was meh. Some bigger Audis had a nice ride quality though. But I haven't been in the latest Audis, probably nothing newer than 2012-ish. The OP's RS3 looks like a different beast than the older Audi's I've driven or ridden in.

Yes....i like the earlier, firmer suspensions and with the 18s, very liveable. Its not going to handle as well as your setup but I'm not tracking the car either so good enough for me. I may upgrade if the suspension does go out but for now, I'm happy with my setup. I bet your car flies on the track now though...its such a good platform for sporty driving.

 

[White Shadow]

... Some bigger Audis had a nice ride quality though. But I haven't been in the latest Audis, probably nothing newer than 2012-ish. The OP's RS3 looks like a different beast than the older Audi's I've driven or ridden in.

Yeah, for sure the newer Audi models from the last 10 years or so have a much improved ride quality. The smaller models like the A3/S3/RS3 still seems a bit crashy to me when it comes to handling bumps, but the other bigger cars have a nicely refined ride. That's one of my favorite things about my Audi and most Audis in general is that they seem to really hit the sweet spot between ride and handling.

On that note, I drove a new Mustang Mach 1 the other day. They come standard with the magnetic ride suspension and it's really nice. It's the perfect solution to make a car handle really well, but also still have a great ride quality. All cars should have that type of suspension set up. It's really that good.

 

[Cypcode]

“bone-jarring” defines the ride in my wife’s Mini F55. The M3P is plush compared. However, the rear in the M3P unsettles on highway roads when hitting uneven pavement. I don’t like that at all. Either way, no matter what car I’ve owned, I have always upgraded the suspension. Totally worth it for me.

 

[S2K_MoZo]

Having switched to 18s on my M3P, and then separately installed coilovers, I can say they both play a significant part in the ride and handling - different parts. Neither is a substitute for the other.

My late 2021 M3P came with a pretty soft, almost bouncy suspension. Rode alright (nothing special), better than a 2021 MYLR at least. Handled like crap when pushed hard. The M3P I test drove felt exactly the same (and was built within a week or two of the one I purchased).

The coilovers I went with are firmer than stock suspension (firmer springs), you can tell, but when the going gets rough and fast they actually ride MUCH better than stock. Tesla definitely missed the mark on the stock suspension, they could've made it ride better or handle better or even both, with no real downside. But I think they prioritized cheap cost even for the M3P.

An early Model 3 that I drove again recently (I briefly drove the same car when it was new) rode and handled firmer than I recall my late 2021 feeling before I modded it. And yeah the older ones have more wind noise too. NVH is just better on the newer Model 3's.

TBH though, I've never been impressed by the ride or handling of the smaller Audis. Every A4/S4 I've been in kind of rode like crap for a "luxury" car, and the handling wasn't anything special either out of the box. A3 was meh. Some bigger Audis had a nice ride quality though. But I haven't been in the latest Audis, probably nothing newer than 2012-ish. The OP's RS3 looks like a different beast than the older Audi's I've driven or ridden in.

Not to distract from the main topic, but do you have a thread where you discussed your setup for track and how it performs street vs. track? I'd love to read up more on setups for dual duty of track and street/daily. Thanks!

 

[tm1v2]

Not to distract from the main topic, but do you have a thread where you discussed your setup for track and how it performs street vs. track? I'd love to read up more on setups for dual duty of track and street/daily. Thanks!

@S2K_MoZo Unfortunately I haven't done track days in years, and I have no plans to track our M3P. It's a family car shared with my wife and needs to be reliable and streetable without the risks or compromises of track duty. Plus lack of time or money for the hobby for foreseeable future.

That said I have some opinions, based on how my M3P feels vs cars I have driven on track...

I have the Redwood Motorsports "Performance Sport" Öhlins DFV coilovers. For a sporty street car, with or without occasional track days, I think they're pretty much perfect stiffness, and the front:rear balance is excellent too. I wouldn't want softer if I was doing any track days. (I wouldn't want "GT" or "Comfort" coilovers for that.) I don't want softer even for my street driving! But I am someone who drives fast and shreds up the twisties on a regular basis. These coilovers are phenomenal for that, while still riding well enough to get some very positive comments from my wife - so long as the dampers are set only halfway firm. (The stiffer settings she doesn't like. And that's okay! I like halfway firm too, and when I want more, it's 2 minutes max to change all four corners.)

If I was planning on a lot of track time, and especially with serious rubber & camber, I would want something firmer. Such as the Redwood "HPDE/Race" kit, or the Öhlins Road & Track kit, or one of MPP's race/track focused options. Going that stiff would make most street driving worse than what I have now, but would be worthwhile if tracking the car regularly, I think.

For heavy track use I'd also go to town upgrading as many mushy rubber mounts and bushings as I could stomach. In my limited experience that makes a big difference in how responsive a car feels at its limits. For my street-only M3P I've only upgraded a few bushings, it's definitely not full track rat stiff.

Besides suspension tuning, I think all the usual stuff for track duty applies. Track pads and DOT4 fluid would be a must. Camber-adjustable control arms as there's basically no camber adjustment stock. You'll also want track-worthy tires, figure roughly 200-240 TW or thereabouts, depending on your goals. When I was doing track days + daily driving on one car, I managed to find tires and camber that worked well for both, so I didn't need to swap those things for track days. Brake pads I ended up swapping between street and track though. I tried some "compromise" street+track pads that turned out to be not great at either. That said there's a whole lot of dual use compromise pads out there to try, maybe some of them work decently well. For me, once I went to serious track pads there was no going back.

There's more to think about though. From what I've read, the M3P can only turn a limited number of hot laps at full blast before thermal throttling kicks in significantly. (Exactly how soon it will throttle is probably very course-dependent.) That's actually better than most EV's, but obviously not great as a track toy. Most here who do track days on a daily driver seem to just live with that, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with it, I've been there with an ICE car struggling to stay cool on track and I didn't find it much fun. The builds I've seen that really addressed the thermals involved frunk delete (to fit everything), lots of extra radiators, custom cooling loops, aftermarket cooling controllers, etc. Looks doable but definitely a compromise for street use.

Then there's the logistics and compromises of keeping it charged. Are you going to sacrifice a session or two to hustle to the nearest Supercharger/DCFC for quick topoffs? Or maybe get by with just a 240V plug you found somewhere in the paddock? Either way you should expect to miss at least one session for charging, if not two, except maybe if you're lucky to have a Supercharger/DCFC right next to the track.

Then there's the lack of seat bolstering. For regular track use in this car I'd want a harness or/and a racing bucket. Installing either one will probably bring more compromises for street use. Honestly I'd like to do something about this even just for tearing up the twisties.

I think the M3P has really fantastic driving dynamics after a good suspension upgrade (yes I push mine to its limits at times on empty roads with nobody and nothing around), and I bet it's really fun to track when properly setup, but some of the logistics and compromises around tracking one are not exactly trivial, in my opinion. Many do it though!

 

[Theone8181]

@S2K_MoZo Unfortunately I haven't done track days in years, and I have no plans to track our M3P. It's a family car shared with my wife and needs to be reliable and streetable without the risks or compromises of track duty. Plus lack of time or money for the hobby for foreseeable future.

That said I have some opinions, based on how my M3P feels vs cars I have driven on track...

I have the Redwood Motorsports "Performance Sport" Öhlins DFV coilovers. For a sporty street car, with or without occasional track days, I think they're pretty much perfect stiffness, and the front:rear balance is excellent too. I wouldn't want softer if I was doing any track days. (I wouldn't want "GT" or "Comfort" coilovers for that.) I don't want softer even for my street driving! But I am someone who drives fast and shreds up the twisties on a regular basis. These coilovers are phenomenal for that, while still riding well enough to get some very positive comments from my wife - so long as the dampers are set only halfway firm. (The stiffer settings she doesn't like. And that's okay! I like halfway firm too, and when I want more, it's 2 minutes max to change all four corners.)

If I was planning on a lot of track time, and especially with serious rubber & camber, I would want something firmer. Such as the Redwood "HPDE/Race" kit, or the Öhlins Road & Track kit, or one of MPP's race/track focused options. Going that stiff would make most street driving worse than what I have now, but would be worthwhile if tracking the car regularly, I think.

For heavy track use I'd also go to town upgrading as many mushy rubber mounts and bushings as I could stomach. In my limited experience that makes a big difference in how responsive a car feels at its limits. For my street-only M3P I've only upgraded a few bushings, it's definitely not full track rat stiff.

Besides suspension tuning, I think all the usual stuff for track duty applies. Track pads and DOT4 fluid would be a must. Camber-adjustable control arms as there's basically no camber adjustment stock. You'll also want track-worthy tires, figure roughly 200-240 TW or thereabouts, depending on your goals. When I was doing track days + daily driving on one car, I managed to find tires and camber that worked well for both, so I didn't need to swap those things for track days. Brake pads I ended up swapping between street and track though. I tried some "compromise" street+track pads that turned out to be not great at either. That said there's a whole lot of dual use compromise pads out there to try, maybe some of them work decently well. For me, once I went to serious track pads there was no going back.

There's more to think about though. From what I've read, the M3P can only turn a limited number of hot laps at full blast before thermal throttling kicks in significantly. (Exactly how soon it will throttle is probably very course-dependent.) That's actually better than most EV's, but obviously not great as a track toy. Most here who do track days on a daily driver seem to just live with that, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with it, I've been there with an ICE car struggling to stay cool on track and I didn't find it much fun. The builds I've seen that really addressed the thermals involved frunk delete (to fit everything), lots of extra radiators, custom cooling loops, aftermarket cooling controllers, etc. Looks doable but definitely a compromise for street use.

Then there's the logistics and compromises of keeping it charged. Are you going to sacrifice a session or two to hustle to the nearest Supercharger/DCFC for quick topoffs? Or maybe get by with just a 240V plug you found somewhere in the paddock? Either way you should expect to miss at least one session for charging, if not two, except maybe if you're lucky to have a Supercharger/DCFC right next to the track.

Then there's the lack of seat bolstering. For regular track use in this car I'd want a harness or/and a racing bucket. Installing either one will probably bring more compromises for street use. Honestly I'd like to do something about this even just for tearing up the twisties.

I think the M3P has really fantastic driving dynamics after a good suspension upgrade (yes I push mine to its limits at times on empty roads with nobody and nothing around), and I bet it's really fun to track when properly setup, but some of the logistics and compromises around tracking one are not exactly trivial, in my opinion. Many do it though!

Interesting you mention seat bolstering (or lack of), I do find I slide around quite a but with "normal" driving.

 

[Cypcode]

Adjustable Recaro seats would be my cup of tea for the M3P. One day.

 

[randmness]

Beautiful car. When I was looking for a car last year, I narrowed it down the BMW M2C, Tesla M3P, and the new RS3. I ended up getting the M3P but I still think about/miss my old M2 at times. The new 6sp Supra is also compelling me heavily .

 

[S2K_MoZo]

@S2K_MoZo Unfortunately I haven't done track days in years, and I have no plans to track our M3P. It's a family car shared with my wife and needs to be reliable and streetable without the risks or compromises of track duty. Plus lack of time or money for the hobby for foreseeable future.

That said I have some opinions, based on how my M3P feels vs cars I have driven on track...

I have the Redwood Motorsports "Performance Sport" Öhlins DFV coilovers. For a sporty street car, with or without occasional track days, I think they're pretty much perfect stiffness, and the front:rear balance is excellent too. I wouldn't want softer if I was doing any track days. (I wouldn't want "GT" or "Comfort" coilovers for that.) I don't want softer even for my street driving! But I am someone who drives fast and shreds up the twisties on a regular basis. These coilovers are phenomenal for that, while still riding well enough to get some very positive comments from my wife - so long as the dampers are set only halfway firm. (The stiffer settings she doesn't like. And that's okay! I like halfway firm too, and when I want more, it's 2 minutes max to change all four corners.)

If I was planning on a lot of track time, and especially with serious rubber & camber, I would want something firmer. Such as the Redwood "HPDE/Race" kit, or the Öhlins Road & Track kit, or one of MPP's race/track focused options. Going that stiff would make most street driving worse than what I have now, but would be worthwhile if tracking the car regularly, I think.

For heavy track use I'd also go to town upgrading as many mushy rubber mounts and bushings as I could stomach. In my limited experience that makes a big difference in how responsive a car feels at its limits. For my street-only M3P I've only upgraded a few bushings, it's definitely not full track rat stiff.

Besides suspension tuning, I think all the usual stuff for track duty applies. Track pads and DOT4 fluid would be a must. Camber-adjustable control arms as there's basically no camber adjustment stock. You'll also want track-worthy tires, figure roughly 200-240 TW or thereabouts, depending on your goals. When I was doing track days + daily driving on one car, I managed to find tires and camber that worked well for both, so I didn't need to swap those things for track days. Brake pads I ended up swapping between street and track though. I tried some "compromise" street+track pads that turned out to be not great at either. That said there's a whole lot of dual use compromise pads out there to try, maybe some of them work decently well. For me, once I went to serious track pads there was no going back.

There's more to think about though. From what I've read, the M3P can only turn a limited number of hot laps at full blast before thermal throttling kicks in significantly. (Exactly how soon it will throttle is probably very course-dependent.) That's actually better than most EV's, but obviously not great as a track toy. Most here who do track days on a daily driver seem to just live with that, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with it, I've been there with an ICE car struggling to stay cool on track and I didn't find it much fun. The builds I've seen that really addressed the thermals involved frunk delete (to fit everything), lots of extra radiators, custom cooling loops, aftermarket cooling controllers, etc. Looks doable but definitely a compromise for street use.

Then there's the logistics and compromises of keeping it charged. Are you going to sacrifice a session or two to hustle to the nearest Supercharger/DCFC for quick topoffs? Or maybe get by with just a 240V plug you found somewhere in the paddock? Either way you should expect to miss at least one session for charging, if not two, except maybe if you're lucky to have a Supercharger/DCFC right next to the track.

Then there's the lack of seat bolstering. For regular track use in this car I'd want a harness or/and a racing bucket. Installing either one will probably bring more compromises for street use. Honestly I'd like to do something about this even just for tearing up the twisties.

I think the M3P has really fantastic driving dynamics after a good suspension upgrade (yes I push mine to its limits at times on empty roads with nobody and nothing around), and I bet it's really fun to track when properly setup, but some of the logistics and compromises around tracking one are not exactly trivial, in my opinion. Many do it though!

Thanks for the breakdown. Spot on with most of your observations. I don't autocross or track as much as I used to. Just need a fix here and there. I fought a lot of heating issues with my S2000s, then C5 Z06, and even 2021 Camaro 1LE that had coolers all over the place for diff, tranny, and engine. I think there is no good track car out of the box and I'm getting too old to mess with things. Just want to go out there. Drive it like I stole it for a few laps, and then go home lol

I did notice the lack of bolstering. I just sold my Camaro and it had recaros. Since I put my hands on the fat steering wheel of M3P, I can't seem to like thin steering wheels anymore. I had Ohlins Street and Track on one of my S2000s and they were the best coilovers that I've ever had on a racecar, IMHO. I'm sure there are some better ones but off the shelf setup under $3K, they are hard to beat.

I don't blame OP. I'd trade my M3P in a heartbeat for the new RS3. Just keep it till warranty expires and jump back on another EV lol

 

[White Shadow]

Beautiful car. When I was looking for a car last year, I narrowed it down the BMW M2C, Tesla M3P, and the new RS3. I ended up getting the M3P but I still think about/miss my old M2 at times. The new 6sp Supra is also compelling me heavily .

I've always liked the new Supra, even if it is more BMW than Toyota. But I never considered getting one until they announced that they are available with a manual transmission.

 

[Cypcode]

I was watching a YouTube video of three 2022 model Y’s getting compared to each other. A German performance and long range compared to the Chinese made model Y. The German performance one had these seats with higher side bolsters and more stitching. Would prefer this type of seat on mine.

 

[nate704]

View attachment 862742
I was watching a YouTube video of three 2022 model Y’s getting compared to each other. A German performance and long range compared to the Chinese made model Y. The German performance one had these seats with higher side bolsters and more stitching. Would prefer this type of seat on mine.

What about the US made ones?

 

[Cypcode]

Comparing the Chinese made one.

 

[ODWms]

I’ve seen some very nice looking offerings out there. But for me, there’s nothing that could pull me away from my M3P. If for nothing else, I am completely spoiled by the efficiency and convenience of electric, and could never see myself going back to gas. No way, no matter what it is.

 

[randmness]

I've always liked the new Supra, even if it is more BMW than Toyota. But I never considered getting one until they announced that they are available with a manual transmission.

Yea, I'm curious to see what the new M2 will look like, but judging by just how much the 2-series has grown, I dont have high expectations. I'm not the biggest fan of the Supra's looks, but the B58 with a 6 speed manual and relatively light/er weight (than the 2 series) is almost the most perfect BMW available today IMO.

 

[scottysize]

3. Range anxiety. Yes, it's real at least for me. I only took a couple of road trips and despite the easy process of finding a supercharger, I found each trip to be a PIA due to having to plan around stops. On a recent trip, the nearest supercharger was 15 miles past my destination. That destination was 45 minutes away due to traffic and added 3 hours to my trip overall. This is obviously part of the EV game and its fine but it was far from ideal.

This one I just don't understand. I've had mine since 2018. I've put 125,000 miles on it with 2 years of no travel to work during COVID. So for 2 years, the only miles I put on it where traveling 650 miles to Albuquerque NM from Sanger, TX. During COVID< I would go check on my then 73 year old father monthly. I did this trip in my Ram 1500 and my Tesla. After 1 trip in the Ram (took 9 hours), I refused to do it any longer unless I'm in the Tesla (takes close to 10 hours). The drive is so much harder with a vehicle without AP. I had Range Anxiety the first 2 trips. After that, I realized it was going to make it to a SuperCharger and everything was fine.

I have since made 3 trips from Texas to Montana to visit my mom. That's a 1750 mile one way trip. I never had any range anxiety with the 2 trips in the Tesla. I have also made this trip once in my Ram Pickup and will NOT do that again. Without AP, road trips are sooooooo much harder. In the pickup, I made the trip in 29 hours. The car took 31 and 32 hours.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Yea, I'm curious to see what the new M2 will look like, but judging by just how much the 2-series has grown, I dont have high expectations. I'm not the biggest fan of the Supra's looks, but the B58 with a 6 speed manual and relatively light/er weight (than the 2 series) is almost the most perfect BMW available today IMO.

Some articles came out this week:

2023 BMW M2 revealed: Hot and heavy - Autoblog

BMW designers made a statement with the debut of the M2, the last non-electrified M car, starting with a low, wide front fascia. Here's what else is new.

www.autoblog.com

Looks pretty fantastic - and it's bucktooth-less

 

[randmness]

Some articles came out this week:

2023 BMW M2 revealed: Hot and heavy - Autoblog

BMW designers made a statement with the debut of the M2, the last non-electrified M car, starting with a low, wide front fascia. Here's what else is new.

www.autoblog.com

Looks pretty fantastic - and it's bucktooth-less

I had no idea info was officially out. I think the previous gen looked amazing, but this doesnt look too bad. It looks like it weighs almost 400lbs more than the 2023 Supra, but I love the practicality of the 2-series; the rear seats are suitable for occassional adults. I imagine those numbers are understated too lol.

 

[BigNick]

That new M2 looks bigger than an E30 M3. Probably twice as heavy too.

 

[Zcd1]

This one I just don't understand...

Ditto