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Trading Model 3 with FSD for Model Y with FSD [complaint about FSD pricing].
- Thread starter roperld
- Start date
Not if you Trade with Tesla. They won't give you a dime more if you have or don't have FSD.
Or any other "Software" upgrade.
If you sell to 3rd party, yes, you should get some of the FSD money back.
Fernand
Active Member
If Tesla deletes FSD from, say, a 1 year old traded-in car, then this software is separate from the car, and it was effectively rented for a year, not purchased, for $10k.
The current "vanishing FSD" software model is an anomaly that isn't really good for anyone. We can see this is even discouraging people from trading up to a newer car !
If I buy and install any commercial software on my laptop, and then get a new computer, I can uninstall it from the first and install it on the second machine. The ethical thing for Musk to do is to let us move our FSD license like any other expensive software package. If I'm selling my car to a third party, I could choose to leave FSD with the old Tesla, or move it to a new one. This would be fair, and would encourage people to buy new cars.
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The current "vanishing FSD" software model is an anomaly that isn't really good for anyone. We can see this is even discouraging people from trading up to a newer car !
If I buy and install any commercial software on my laptop, and then get a new computer, I can uninstall it from the first and install it on the second machine. The ethical thing for Musk to do is to let us move our FSD license like any other expensive software package. If I'm selling my car to a third party, I could choose to leave FSD with the old Tesla, or move it to a new one. This would be fair, and would encourage people to buy new cars.
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The true “rental” cost actually depends on the residual value of FSD at trade in. Your statement is only valid if Tesla doesn’t value an FSD trade in any higher than a non FSD. I doubt that is the case. On a trade-in resale it doesn’t really matter (to the previous owner) whether or not Tesla remove FSD as the sale price will reflect the spec as sold. But it does mean that you can’t buy FSD “used” from Tesla at a discounted price. This however should maximise the residual value of FSD in a private sale since the only alternative for a used buyer is to pay the full $10k directly from Tesla.
RedModel3
Member
Exactly! If Tesla is going to remove these features from used cars like software, then those of us who have purchased any part of this software should be able to transfer it to a new car. They can't have it both ways.
That's why people say Tesla is a rip off on trades.
Why would they pay you for Software they can add for free?
Or why would they buy their own software?
They are buying back the hardware only.
If I had it to do all over again, I'd skip FSD entirely. As a new owner in October, I was swept up in the excitement and rosy promises, just as the price was about to increase from $8k to $10k and I fell for it. I watch every FSDBeta video and as interesting as they are, it's clear we are very far away from FSD being released to the Gen Pop. I'm really surprised that someone who bought into the promise once would fall for the same pitch again, especially since the software is tied to the vehicle and not the owner/account.
At some point, there are bound to be lawsuits over this. It's uncharted territory - are you buying an accessory for the car, or are you buying a software license? Did you read the terms and conditions when you purchased FSD? (There were none except for a very open ended promise about future updates.)
I love my 3 and plan to keep it for a while. If I were to go for another EV, I'd look beyond Tesla, especially since there are no more federal tax credits for Teslas. I might consider a Mach E (where I could get $12,500 in federal/state rebates) which would lessen the sting of throwing $8K down the drain on FSD.
At some point, there are bound to be lawsuits over this. It's uncharted territory - are you buying an accessory for the car, or are you buying a software license? Did you read the terms and conditions when you purchased FSD? (There were none except for a very open ended promise about future updates.)
I love my 3 and plan to keep it for a while. If I were to go for another EV, I'd look beyond Tesla, especially since there are no more federal tax credits for Teslas. I might consider a Mach E (where I could get $12,500 in federal/state rebates) which would lessen the sting of throwing $8K down the drain on FSD.
El joe
Active Member
Got my Model 3 LR AWD with EAP and love it. But can’t imagine how frustrating buying FSD would be at $10k and having them spend time and resources rolling out external fart noises before fully-developing and rolling out FSD to people that invested so much money into it. Getting burned on a trade-in without getting to use Level 5 FSD, too, would be infuriating.
To me that just says that Tesla really don't want to be bothered dealing with trade-ins. Surely you would get a much better return selling an FSD car privately if Tesla really are giving you zero back for it. To be fair, Tesla offered very good guaranteed residuals on UK PCP deals when I bought our MX in Feb 18, including the residual value of any options added - in my case EAP, premium interior etc. Other manufacturers usually offer no such guaranteed PCP residual on added options.
I'm surprised people trade their FSD cars back to Tesla if the residuals are so bad. Nothing new about manufacturers offering poor residuals in direct trade-ins. The solution (as it always has been) is to sell privately first, although it is more hassle.
Anyway, so glad I didn't add FSD to our Model 3. I don't think it is remotely worth $10k regardless of any residual value.
They gave me the best price on my Jeep $32K (new was $50K, 3 years old 30K miles).
They offered me crap $32K on my 2018 Model 3 Performance (new was like $70K with FSD, 1 year old, 9K miles). I sold it for $50K.
It had like $18K of software on it (FSD, Performance [back when it was only a software difference], Free Super Charging).
They will give typical trade in offers on non Tesla's or Tesla's with no Software upgrades. Tesla's with Software, forget about it.
Yep, seems like they really are screwing FSD cars on trade-in then. Nice touch considering what a rip-off the whole thing is anyway! Porsche on the other hand just screw all their customers on trade-in regardless of spec, lol.
I agree that this is not a surprise, and is consistent with some (although not all) other high appreciation luxury cars. Anyone who gets taken in by Musk's nonsense about a non-appreciating asset is fooling themselves. It's just another car with a high rate of depreciation.
If you bought in 2020 like me, you're actually fairly close to getting everything you were promised with FSD. The only thing missing is autosteer on city streets (which is in beta). When it's released to the public, it won't be hands free and will still be a L2 system. I think the advertising is sometimes misleading, because Tesla has a lot of aspirational videos about the future of autonomy. However, what you actually paid for and were promised was a Level 2 driver assistance system. I caution anyone I talk to about buying a Tesla that you really should not get the FSD option if you aren't happy with the *current* feature set. In 2018/2019, I think Tesla was engaged in false advertising and overpromising what FSD could do. Now, they are very clear about what features you are getting now and in the near future. Anything else that happens beyond that (L3 hands free driving, etc.) should be considered a bonus.
CapeOne
Active Member
Unless someone is trading two otherwise identical Teslas at the same time, except one has FSD and the other doesn't, I don't see how one can say for sure how Tesla actually values FSD. Just because Tesla gives a low trade offer doesn't necessarily mean they are valuing FSD at or near zero.
There are complaints about Tesla “lowball” trade offers all the time whether it be on Teslas or non-Teslas, vehicles with or without FSD, etc. There are also those who feel they actually got a good trade offer from Tesla. It's somewhat of a mixed bag.
Tesla's retail pricing on their used inventory cars isn't always logical or consistent either.
So many inconsistencies and variables can make it tough to definitely conclude much of anything.
There are complaints about Tesla “lowball” trade offers all the time whether it be on Teslas or non-Teslas, vehicles with or without FSD, etc. There are also those who feel they actually got a good trade offer from Tesla. It's somewhat of a mixed bag.
Tesla's retail pricing on their used inventory cars isn't always logical or consistent either.
So many inconsistencies and variables can make it tough to definitely conclude much of anything.
Fernand
Active Member
I think people confuse the trade-in and software "portability" issue with the value of the full automation package.
I had EAP which has been a very useful thing for 2 years for me. I haven't wanted or needed Level 5, especially in the current regulatory/legal context. No point in explaining that for the naysayers. I added an FSD upgrade, it got me the new 3.x hardware, and I look forward to street NOA, probably this quarter. No complaints. I think the people who are wondering what they got will turn around soon. Elon does deliver in the end. Keep the faith, and quit spreading bad vibes.
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I had EAP which has been a very useful thing for 2 years for me. I haven't wanted or needed Level 5, especially in the current regulatory/legal context. No point in explaining that for the naysayers. I added an FSD upgrade, it got me the new 3.x hardware, and I look forward to street NOA, probably this quarter. No complaints. I think the people who are wondering what they got will turn around soon. Elon does deliver in the end. Keep the faith, and quit spreading bad vibes.
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Fernand
Active Member
First of all, there is no "ready". It's a gradual development, and I claim it will never ever be "ready", ie. final/complete. The state of roads, human drivers, legislation, insurance, makes 100% Level 5 impractical right now. Even if at some point in the future, when sharing the poorly maintained streets with unpredictable humans and all the liability and regulatory issues are put to rest, there will always be boundary cases that must be addressed with updates and changes. It will never be final.
And what FSD are you referring to? If you mean the "FSD" option that, relative to the current basic AP, adds freeway NOA with auto-itinerary and blinker stalk initiated lane changes, self-park, summon etc, then it's a clear benefit. More so than when "FSD" was an add-on to EAP. It all depends how much these capabilities add to your driving experience, relative to the need to monitor the system. For me, a vast majority of freeway miles are handled well by NOA. I do monitor closely, or "babysit" as you call it, and I do take over on occasion, but that's how it works, and it's OK by me. My cumulative stress and fatigue are significantly reduced. Hardly a "show off gimmick".
"Driving the car yourself" requires both continuous babysitting AND operating the car down to the lowest level steering and speed control operations. Even if the automation relieved merely half of those efforts, it would be a win. And for me it's way better than half. Even just reducing the stress of manually changing lanes with blind spots in dense high speed freeway splits is worth a lot. Maybe that's not a stressor for you, indeed there are different types of drivers. Maybe you have eyes in the back of your head and nanosecond reflexes. I don't. And tedious bumper to bumper traffic with lane changes is another win with automation. What comes next as the system evolves feels like a continuous bonus.
Does that answer your question?
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