Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

trading

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Well.. I didn't sit tight after all.. Closed all my open puts on the climb up.

Planning to wait for a dip towards the end of day, close my CCs and buy the shares I wanted.
Will see if I might finds some fresh puts to sell for next week.

Aand.. I didnt wait until end of day either. :-/

Close CC with $800 loss.

Bought shares at $728, and sold puts when SP was $722..

Sold $690 with expiry in two weeks. Will see how those turn out. Got me another 14 shares.
 
Aand.. I didnt wait until end of day either. :-/

Close CC with $800 loss.

Bought shares at $728, and sold puts when SP was $722..

Sold $690 with expiry in two weeks. Will see how those turn out. Got me another 14 shares.

My luck day, it seem like.. good thing I didnt wait for a dip at end of day.

Rolled the 6x naked puts from $690 15Jan to $700 5Feb, (This paid $50 istead of $18). Bought 16 more shares and a $720 feb call. (tt007 tweeted, and I follow the bull/uptrend leader..)

Edit: fixed som numbers which were inacurate
 
Last edited:
My luck day, it seem like.. good thing I didnt wait for a dip at end of day.

Rolled the puts til end of january, ($50 istead of $18). Bought more shares and a $800 feb call. (tt007 tweeted, and I follow the bull/uptrend leader..)

Did TT007 said the stock was going to 1000+ and then when it didn't that it would crash?

I enjoyed this AM spike so much that I decided to close my 690c & 700c for a nice 3x profit and also sold 2x 850c 3/19s for $53.81 (all pretty near the peak for an amateur like me). I’m planning to roll this cash into other calls, but my trading platform doesn’t allow this in a single trade, so I’m out in search of some good deals. Edit: Just so people don’t think I’m amazingly lucky, the QS 89p that I sold is killing me and will likely lose $10k on it.:(

Dang. I did the same 3 QS 80ps that expired OTM on Friday but still got assign because I didn't close the trades and the stock kept on tanking after hours. I still have 3 more QS 80p for the 29th. :(
 
Last edited:
My luck day, it seem like.. good thing I didnt wait for a dip at end of day.

Rolled the 6x naked puts from $690 15Jan to $700 5Feb, (This paid $50 istead of $18). Bought 16 more shares and a $720 feb call. (tt007 tweeted, and I follow the bull/uptrend leader..)

Edit: fixed som numbers which were inacurate
Lol never trust TT007 on short term price targets. People forget he is wrong way more than he is right. A broken clock...
 
Damn.. this is exciting!

Question:
I have -6x $700 naked puts with expiry 1/29..

Thinking about rolling them up to stay $100 below current sp..
Any better ideas?

Feel like I leave way to much money on the table just waiting.. with a steady decreasing time value..less and less.. :-D
 
Last edited:
Damn.. this is exciting!

Question:
I have -6x $700 naked puts with expiry 1/29..

Thinking about rolling them up to stay $100 below current sp..
Any better ideas?

Feel like I leave way to much money on the table just waiting.. with a steady decreasing time value..less and less.. :-D

The way I make decisions like this (and I've had many to make over the summer with this ever increasing price dynamic) - look at the new position and compare to the current position as it actually is (not what it was when you started).

As you near expiration the % time decay will increase even as the absolute time decay ($) decreases. Looking at the absolute time decay, if rolling up to a higher strike that you're comfortable with, then it's probably a no-brainer -- you'll have more time value decaying over the same time period.


But if the absolute time value remaining in the current position is "enough" (still plenty of time value to decay), then sitting still and doing nothing is probably the better choice.


There is a crossover point when the current position time decay is lower than the new position time decay; somewhere in there is probably a good time to roll (subject to all of your other position criteria).
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Runarbt
If I put in a roll order to buy/close and sell/open calls, it does the approximate math for me and shows an estimated debit/credit as the cost. Wonderful and helpful.

If I overwrite that debit amount with something lower and preview the order, it seems to lock in that cost. Does that basically just sit as a contingent order waiting for a scenario where my specified cost of rolling is achievable at these two strikes with these two expirations?
 
Question:

Selling puts on margin. It seem like I can sell puts worth my entire margin?

I first believed I had to have enough margin available to exercise the puts - but it seem I only need enough buy back the puts?
Is this correct?

So in principle - I could sell 10,000x $500 1/22 puts @0.15 and bank 150k (1/3 of my available margin).

Only downside would be if stock drop 20% - making puts jump to $0.45 - 300%, which would push them just above my available margin. :-( So might be risky - even if SP stays above $700 all the way to expiry?
 
Question:

Selling puts on margin. It seem like I can sell puts worth my entire margin?

I first believed I had to have enough margin available to exercise the puts - but it seem I only need enough buy back the puts?
Is this correct?

So in principle - I could sell 10,000x $500 1/22 puts @0.15 and bank 150k (1/3 of my available margin).

Only downside would be if stock drop 20% - making puts jump to $0.45 - 300%, which would push them just above my available margin. :-( So might be risky - even if SP stays above $700 all the way to expiry?

ETrade doesn’t let me sell a put if I don’t have enough margin to exercise it
 
ETrade doesn’t let me sell a put if I don’t have enough margin to exercise it

I guess there are calculation there that I aint aware of.

I had open 6x $750 puts, 1x $850 put and then sold 10x $650 puts (all naked) as a test to see if I could.

I have about $600k of available margin.

Cant find an over view anywhere over what I have tied up..

All it says I have these open puts on margin. Which is stated as "margin: -27k", which is current cost to buy them back.

I really dont have available margin to buy all the shares behind these puts.. I am at 2x now.. but no warning of any kind?

I was kinda expecting a margin call after selling those last 10x $650 puts.:confused::rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
I guess there are calculation there that I aint aware of.

I had open 6x $750, 1x $850 and then sold 10x $650 as a test to see if I could.

I have about $600k of available margin.

Cant find an over view anywhere over what I have tied up..

All it says I have these open puts on margin. Which is stated as "margin: -27k".
Popping over here to elaborate. It looks like schwab requires 25% of the strike price - the out of money amount - the credit received. So the math assuming a share price of 800 at the time of selling:
(650-(800-650)) * .25 - 2= 123k margin required.
Things get sticky though if the stock keeps going down after you sell the put. 725 share price for example.
(650-(725-650)) * .25 - 2= 142k margin required.
If you only 130k margin available when you made the trade, you would now have a margin call in this scenario. It probably would've actually occurred earlier since your other assets went down as well reducing margin available in the portfolio. But looks like you say you had 600k margin available so you were fine.

But just ask yourself if tying up ~125k was worth the 2k.
 
Popping over here to elaborate. It looks like schwab requires 25% of the strike price - the out of money amount - the credit received. So the math assuming a share price of 800 at the time of selling:
(650-(800-650)) * .25 - 2= 123k margin required.
Things get sticky though if the stock keeps going down after you sell the put. 725 share price for example.
(650-(725-650)) * .25 - 2= 142k margin required.
If you only 130k margin available when you made the trade, you would now have a margin call in this scenario. It probably would've actually occurred earlier since your other assets went down as well reducing margin available in the portfolio. But looks like you say you had 600k margin available so you were fine.

But just ask yourself if tying up ~125k was worth the 2k.

Thank you Tyler!!!

This explains a lot. :)

Yes, I had no other plans for the margin so $2k bonus was fine this time. Since it expires next week, I will be all set for Q4 ER and a possible sell the news.
 
  • Like
Reactions: juanmedina
Popping over here to elaborate. It looks like schwab requires 25% of the strike price - the out of money amount - the credit received. So the math assuming a share price of 800 at the time of selling:
(650-(800-650)) * .25 - 2= 123k margin required.
Things get sticky though if the stock keeps going down after you sell the put. 725 share price for example.
(650-(725-650)) * .25 - 2= 142k margin required.
If you only 130k margin available when you made the trade, you would now have a margin call in this scenario. It probably would've actually occurred earlier since your other assets went down as well reducing margin available in the portfolio. But looks like you say you had 600k margin available so you were fine.

But just ask yourself if tying up ~125k was worth the 2k.
Good discussion here! Thanks @Runarbt and @Tyler34. I'm also at Schwab and was interested in understanding this also.
I love the idea of selling puts rather than covered calls as a way of generating income off TSLA. I did sell one cash covered put a while back and it worked out great. Looking back, I would have been much better off by buying TSLA with the cash rather than have it be tied up. But at the time, it made sense as I wanted to have some available cash.

Most of my TSLA is in multiple IRAs which do not allow margin. So it has to be cash covered. As I am bullish, I find returns on being long the underlying stock to be better than cash covered puts.

I also have a non-retirement account (which is also 100% invested). I've never traded on margin before, but it may be worth looking into.
 
If I put in a roll order to buy/close and sell/open calls, it does the approximate math for me and shows an estimated debit/credit as the cost. Wonderful and helpful.

If I overwrite that debit amount with something lower and preview the order, it seems to lock in that cost. Does that basically just sit as a contingent order waiting for a scenario where my specified cost of rolling is achievable at these two strikes with these two expirations?
Apparently the above assumption is true. I put in an order to roll a covered call out to the next higher expiration date and set the "net credit" to slightly higher than the order estimated. Order sat there for a second then executed with the net credit I specified. Cool way to do a "planned roll out" of covered calls without having to babysit the order.

Edit: Obviously you people likely know this, just sharing for my fellow noobs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: adiggs
Thank you Tyler!!!

This explains a lot. :)

Yes, I had no other plans for the margin so $2k bonus was fine this time. Since it expires next week, I will be all set for Q4 ER and a possible sell the news.
I would've liked to know the premium on something like a 750 put. As in could i have sold 1 put that netted me 2k for like 1/8th the required capital? Quick in my head math tells me it would've required ~17k margin
 
Good discussion here! Thanks @Runarbt and @Tyler34. I'm also at Schwab and was interested in understanding this also.
I love the idea of selling puts rather than covered calls as a way of generating income off TSLA. I did sell one cash covered put a while back and it worked out great. Looking back, I would have been much better off by buying TSLA with the cash rather than have it be tied up. But at the time, it made sense as I wanted to have some available cash.

Most of my TSLA is in multiple IRAs which do not allow margin. So it has to be cash covered. As I am bullish, I find returns on being long the underlying stock to be better than cash covered puts.

I also have a non-retirement account (which is also 100% invested). I've never traded on margin before, but it may be worth looking into.
Something ive done in my IRA is buying deep in the money calls. This increases leverage over just shares so long as you have faith we are going up before expiry.