Heck, I use EAP any time I don't expect to have to turn or stop for a light within the next block or so. It's a better driver than I am. So I let it drive.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Traffic aware cruise control - initial set speed?
- Thread starter fcos154
- Start date
-
- Tags
- cruise control
Heck, I use EAP any time I don't expect to have to turn or stop for a light within the next block or so. It's a better driver than I am. So I let it drive.
Thanks for the confirmation that the manual's "fully down" is not accurate. Your stalk detent must be MUCH more subtle than mine. Just like with my turn-signal stalk... to get to the second position, I really have to want it. It is a big push to get it in there.
Oh, man. Poor guy. Maui for FIVE MONTHS? Where do I sent the condolence card? Well.... I've got several hundred miles on the car with my -20 offset, and I can confidently say (that at least with my car!) that it works great to allow setting to the current speed, provided the current speed is no more than 20 mph under what the car has determined the speed limit to be. This is *almost* a reasonable situation for me. Still, it would be nice to also have a speed warning. But no, I need to set it to -20, and then turn it off so I'm not alerted every time I'm going over 45 mph on the freeway
Understood. There is *no* reason that the car can't allow both options. And no matter what, I still contend that setting a *Speed Limit Warning* should not affect how fast my car tries to go when TACC is set! One option: It defaults to the speed limit, but tapping the speed limit allows for current speed setting.... or vice-versa. Or just a toggle switch near the speed limit warning setting.
Yeah, I'm still not OK with it aways trying to achieve the speed limit.... OR the offset, whichever is higher. I agree that we should have options. A choice between how it works now (that seems to have plenty of fans) and for the Darell Way™ (which of course is also the Every Other Car in the World with Cruise Control Way™)
swaltner
Active Member
Agreed. The real pain points for me with the current setup are: 1) I'm in a construction zone in town where they are rebuilding the highway. The speed limit was 60, but it's 40 mph during the construction. I'm fine if I don't hit any of the stop lights in the construction zone. Once you hit a stoplight, it's impossible to reactivate TACC without exceeding the speed limit. 2) When I'm driving through a small town about 20 miles from home, the Tesla thinks the speed limit on all surface streets is 55. The real speed limit is 30 or possibly 40. How does one activate cruise control when the car lurches forward to 25 mph over the real speed limit? 3) The small town I live next to has a speed limit of 25 mph (recently raised from 20 mph). The Tesla doesn't know what the speed is on main street in town. No problem when I'm leaving home, since the Model 3 will just pick my current speed when I activate TACC. However, when I am returning home, right before it loses track of the speed limit, I'm on a highway with a 70 mph speed limit, so the cruise is set at 72 mph. Try to activate the cruise control in this situation and the car attempts to rocket up to 72 mph, generally reaching 40 mph before I'm able to get the cruise set speed back to the desired level.
This really is frustrating that Tesla is conflating two completely different functions (Speed Warning and TACC), and also has an illogical default TACC speed.
I want a Speed Warning chime anytime I exceed X mph (or %) relative to the speed limit. That should have nothing whatsoever to do with TACC.
When I engage TACC, it should set to my current speed.
Then I should be able to scroll up and down with the scroll wheel to change the speed. (This is how it currently functions.)
Or I should be able to tap the speed limit sign icon or click the scroll wheel if I want to set it at the speed limit.
Or I should be able to press some "+/-" or "offset" button on the screen if I want to set it at some stored offset relative to the speed limit. And that stored setting should be completely separate from the stored Speed Warning setting.
I don't see why this is difficult.
I want a Speed Warning chime anytime I exceed X mph (or %) relative to the speed limit. That should have nothing whatsoever to do with TACC.
When I engage TACC, it should set to my current speed.
Then I should be able to scroll up and down with the scroll wheel to change the speed. (This is how it currently functions.)
Or I should be able to tap the speed limit sign icon or click the scroll wheel if I want to set it at the speed limit.
Or I should be able to press some "+/-" or "offset" button on the screen if I want to set it at some stored offset relative to the speed limit. And that stored setting should be completely separate from the stored Speed Warning setting.
I don't see why this is difficult.
I fully support you and feel your frustration. I agree on all accounts.
I@SDKoala is correct IMO.
In Short: I think this is an issue and one that may wind up on the front of the next 'Let's short Tesla' headline. It is a Model 3 only problem, S/X & Roadster don't suffer this issue.
At length, I've been nagging Tesla since the first time I activated cruise control at 25mph in a school zone and was suddenly launched forwards by the car! It won't hit anything, as it's distance aware so, this isn't a big safety concern but, for me, I'm finding that I can't use cruise control very much at all and I want a refund.
I've spoken to Tesla and been surprisingly misunderstood. It seems that the whole interface is misleading as they seem to have inadvertently co-mingled speed warning and cruise control onto the same set of UI controls:
These are not connected however, in Tesla parlance they seem to have inadvertently become one. I think that everyone at Tesla is misunderstanding my complaint/fear* because of this connection.
- Speed warning is a feature to help avoid unintended speeding, basically, to avoid a ticket.
- Cruise control is a feature to maintain vehicle speed automatically.
One proposal I received from Tesla was a solution where the speed warning buffer would be updated to allow a negative value.
Below I’ve laid out the concern, and a simple fix. I’ve also outlined why the current proposed fix will not work.
Example failure scenario
The simple ask
- My local school is on a 40mph road. During school hours the speed is 25mph whilst lights are flashing. There is a long downhill followed by a long uphill. I can’t use cruse control in this scenario as the car accelerates to 40mph regardless of the time of day.
- Traveling on the NJ Parkway I hit long stretches of roadworks with speed limit of 45mph. I can’t use cruse control at this time as the car accelerates to the assumed limit of 65mph.
- I want to have speed warning set at 5mph above the posted signs. If I do this, I can’t use cruise control at the posted limit, instead that car accelerates to the posted limit PLUS the speed warning margin.
- I’m driving on a 35mph road at 35mph however, the car is mis-categorizing the post speed limit as 45mph. I cannot use the cruise control as the car accelerates to 10mph over the posted limit (more if the extra 5mph buffer were included!) (please don’t ask where this occurs, fixing the GPS database is not the issue at hand here
I can’t set my cruise control to the current road speed because the car instead, accelerates violently to what it believes is the maximum posted speed I should be driving at.
This is clearly wrong, if you read what I’m saying, the absurdity should become clear.
The simple fix
- Enable the ‘set’ function on the cruise control to set at the current road speed.
Why the current proposed fix won’t work
The proposed fix of allowing a ‘negative’ speed warning offset will result in the speed warning chime sounding every time you cross the threshold. For example:
- I set the offset to -5mph. The warning chimes every time I hit 35mph on a road with a posted speed limit of 40mph.
- I set the offset to -5mph. When driving in a school zone on a road that has a 40mph posted limit, setting the cruise control results in the car accelerating to 35mph.
- I set the offset to -20mph to ensure I can set the speed to 25mph in a 40mph zone. The warning chimes nearly every time I get out of my driveway.
If anyone has any ideas on how we can get this fixed, I'm all ears!
**My fear is that this phenomenon will be branded as ‘unintended acceleration’ which always has the media in a fizz. Now is not the time for more crazy press! I’ve managed enough ‘situations’ with Tesla during the early years running Tesla Motors Club, when I’d get a call from Rachel Konrad or even Colette Niazmand because of some stupid comment (Now known as 'fake news') about a Tesla fire or some accident that proved electric cars where dangerous, so I know how quickly mis-information can be twisted and this feels like just that kind of thing.
I agree with this 100%@SDKoala is correct IMO.
In Short: I think this is an issue and one that may wind up on the front of the next 'Let's short Tesla' headline. It is a Model 3 only problem, S/X & Roadster don't suffer this issue.
At length, I've been nagging Tesla since the first time I activated cruise control at 25mph in a school zone and was suddenly launched forwards by the car! It won't hit anything, as it's distance aware so, this isn't a big safety concern but, for me, I'm finding that I can't use cruise control very much at all and I want a refund.
I've spoken to Tesla and been surprisingly misunderstood. It seems that the whole interface is misleading as they seem to have inadvertently co-mingled speed warning and cruise control onto the same set of UI controls:
These are not connected however, in Tesla parlance they seem to have inadvertently become one. I think that everyone at Tesla is misunderstanding my complaint/fear* because of this connection.
- Speed warning is a feature to help avoid unintended speeding, basically, to avoid a ticket.
- Cruise control is a feature to maintain vehicle speed automatically.
One proposal I received from Tesla was a solution where the speed warning buffer would be updated to allow a negative value.
Below I’ve laid out the concern, and a simple fix. I’ve also outlined why the current proposed fix will not work.
Example failure scenario
The simple ask
- My local school is on a 40mph road. During school hours the speed is 25mph whilst lights are flashing. There is a long downhill followed by a long uphill. I can’t use cruse control in this scenario as the car accelerates to 40mph regardless of the time of day.
- Traveling on the NJ Parkway I hit long stretches of roadworks with speed limit of 45mph. I can’t use cruse control at this time as the car accelerates to the assumed limit of 65mph.
- I want to have speed warning set at 5mph above the posted signs. If I do this, I can’t use cruise control at the posted limit, instead that car accelerates to the posted limit PLUS the speed warning margin.
- I’m driving on a 35mph road at 35mph however, the car is mis-categorizing the post speed limit as 45mph. I cannot use the cruise control as the car accelerates to 10mph over the posted limit (more if the extra 5mph buffer were included!) (please don’t ask where this occurs, fixing the GPS database is not the issue at hand here
I can’t set my cruise control to the current road speed because the car instead, accelerates violently to what it believes is the maximum posted speed I should be driving at.
This is clearly wrong, if you read what I’m saying, the absurdity should become clear.
The simple fix
- Enable the ‘set’ function on the cruise control to set at the current road speed.
Why the current proposed fix won’t work
The proposed fix of allowing a ‘negative’ speed warning offset will result in the speed warning chime sounding every time you cross the threshold. For example:
- I set the offset to -5mph. The warning chimes every time I hit 35mph on a road with a posted speed limit of 40mph.
- I set the offset to -5mph. When driving in a school zone on a road that has a 40mph posted limit, setting the cruise control results in the car accelerating to 35mph.
- I set the offset to -20mph to ensure I can set the speed to 25mph in a 40mph zone. The warning chimes nearly every time I get out of my driveway.
If anyone has any ideas on how we can get this fixed, I'm all ears!
**My fear is that this phenomenon will be branded as ‘unintended acceleration’ which always has the media in a fizz. Now is not the time for more crazy press! I’ve managed enough ‘situations’ with Tesla during the early years running Tesla Motors Club, when I’d get a call from Rachel Konrad or even Colette Niazmand because of some stupid comment (Now known as 'fake news') about a Tesla fire or some accident that proved electric cars where dangerous, so I know how quickly mis-information can be twisted and this feels like just that kind of thing.
The good recent news is that you can now set the set speed to -20mph, i.e. 20mph under the limit. This means that it usually works OK now. Still regularly flutters when it thinks it's seen something, I'd still like to disable TACC altogether but, I can and do use it a bit now.
And everybody is aware that when setting the offset to -20 that you do NOT need to suffer the speed warning at all times? I'm sure that I mentioned this before in this thread, but just in case....
You simply set the warning to -20, then turn the warning off.
I still find this to be silly at best, as now I can't use the speed warning as a warning at all. I'm only using this warning field to fool TACC into allow me to set cruise it at my current speed. It works as a kludge, but why must we do this?
You simply set the warning to -20, then turn the warning off.
I still find this to be silly at best, as now I can't use the speed warning as a warning at all. I'm only using this warning field to fool TACC into allow me to set cruise it at my current speed. It works as a kludge, but why must we do this?
Oh yes, still stupid kludge. They've accidentally merged the speed warning and cruise controls into the same UI
I have every indication that Tesla has implemented it this way on purpose. Everything about the car seems biased for high speed all the time. And there are many owners who prefer it to be this way.Oh yes, still stupid kludge. They've accidentally merged the speed warning and cruise controls into the same UI
Me, no so much.
Agreed with that; I don't need a 'chill' mode (because I got the model with the variable accelerator pedal) nor do I need a fire place or to play Atari games in my car but what I'd really like is to have a cruise control (and Auto-Steer) that accelerated and decelerated like a Chauffeur, instead of an impatient teenager.
SalisburySam
Active Member
@EVnut et al, I’m firmly in your camp on this issue...just an odd and dangerous decision based perhaps on a flawed use case. I still keep my warning on with an offset of +2 (which seems to be my speedo error from 55-70). When I engage TACC at a speed less than the GPS-specified limit and if the car accelerates, I correct with the steering knob or brake and Tesla gets: “Bug Report: engaging TACC just caused vehicle to mistakenly accelerate.” No idea if that does any good, but it makes me feel better.
Like others, I can engage TACC with a single down stroke on the gear shift to the first detent...no need to push down fully. I can also engage the rest of AutoSteer with two down stokes to only the first detent...again no need to push down fully.
Like others, I can engage TACC with a single down stroke on the gear shift to the first detent...no need to push down fully. I can also engage the rest of AutoSteer with two down stokes to only the first detent...again no need to push down fully.
Indeed, I'm right there with you. What is clearly (to me!) needed is far more predictive actions vs. purely reactionary. When I see a sea of brake lights ahead on the freeway, I'm already coming off the go pedal. But left to its own devices, the TACC will zoom right up to the mess until it gets into that zone of "follow distance" that I've set, and then decide that maybe a bit of slowing would be in order.
Ha. Yeah. Sadly, the bug isn't in the operation (because that operation is how it is described in the manual!) the bug is in the apparently purposeful design of that system.
Thanks for the confirmation. I believe the user manual still says to push the selector "fully" down.
The -20 works for now as a workaround for the sudden acceleration to 55 on an unmarked residential street. I did that for this one and S (though the S really is the best scenario with a stalk that can do current and detected/posted speed). i would agree too that current speed would be safer than defaulting to the "detected/posted speed".
What I'm finding now is driving the S after the 3 I want to push the drive stalk down on the S to engage cruise and use the right roller to adjust speed. I wonder if they can give us an option to do that on the S for us ppl that own a S and 3.
Warning chime should have *nothing* to do with TACC of course. It is a warning, not an actual speed setting! And IMO, the "offset" shouldn't even exist. TACC should set at current speed. And if a user wants it faster, they can "opt in" and scroll the wheel to what the way. Default should not be some randomly pre-set amount of offset that can cause the car to accelerate like crazy immediately after being set. Especially since setting takes just one small tap on the stalk that in other cars turns on the wipers!
I personally find great value in TACC. I also find great liability in having a pre-set speed that it tries to achieve. TACC should never accelerate immediate upon setting. And that means having no offset. If you want the setting to be above the current speed, THAT should take an extra action. Not the other way around.
smorgasbord
Active Member
I haven't tried this yet, but wouldn't setting the Cruise to "Absolute" and then down to "20" effectively do what you-all have been asking? Since you probably won't be engaging cruise when you're going under 20MPH, then the system will choose the current speed of the vehicle?
I think another potential solution would be to allow us adjust the "Set" speed with the right scroll wheel before engaging TACC or Autopilot. Right now (on Model 3) if TACC/Autopilot is OFF then rotating the right scroll wheel does nothing. Let the right scroll wheel adjust the set speed up or down BEFORE engaging TACC.
Mike
Mike
Similar threads
