Traffic aware cruise control - initial set speed?

[darth_vad3r]

There is no gas pedal in my car. I'm totally baffled about why you keep calling it that. The go pedal in my car has nothing to do with gas.

Really? “Totally baffled” LOL.

I will admit I wasn’t consistent but I wrote ‘gas’ pedal more times than I wrote gas pedal. It’s shorter to write than “accelerator pedal” (which I also wrote more times than “gas pedal”).

Also curious what you call the box under the passenger side dash that presumably has nothing to do with gloves in Maui, the “surfboard wax box”?

 

[daniel]

Really? “Totally baffled” LOL.

I will admit I wasn’t consistent but I wrote ‘gas’ pedal more times than I wrote gas pedal. It’s shorter to write than “accelerator pedal” (which I also wrote more times than “gas pedal”).

Also curious what you call the box under the passenger side dash that presumably has nothing to do with gloves in Maui, the “surfboard wax box”?

I apologize if my reply seemed harsh. I usually call it the go pedal. Sometimes I call it the electron pedal. I think that Tesla calls it the accelerator pedal. Often I just call it the pedal, and let the context make it clear which pedal I'm talking about. As in, "The Roadster literally throws your head back when you step on the pedal." It's just that there's such a strong culture of rejecting gas among EV drivers, that nobody calls it the "gas" pedal. The term grates.

Tesla still calls it the glove box even though nobody keeps gloves in it. Nobody minds because calling it that does not negate everything the car is, the way "gas pedal" does. There are abundant words and phrases that do not carry their literal meanings. But when they become offensive they drop out of common usage.

 

[daniel]

I don't have a lot of opportunity here to try it out, but I did today, and darth_vad3r is right: it did seem as though the car did not begin to accelerate to the set speed until I let off the pedal.

 

[daniel]

Gold star for darth_vad3r now that I've confirmed that his report is correct, and because his post was the first time I've seen anyone post this item: If you engage AP when the set speed is faster than your current speed, the car will not accelerate unless and until you take your foot off the pedal. (I did not specifically test on TACC, but I believe that it's the same.)

It's an awkward way to have to do it, but better than having to flick the wheel down while the car is trying to get you a speeding ticket.

I have not tried any of the variations involving small foot movements.

 

[Dylanpete]

Follow up ... I don't know what to tell you. I went for a test drive and tried various scenarios, TACC, AP, speed limit warning off, display, chime, absolute and relative speeds ... no matter how I engage TACC/AP with a single or double half or full press, the car doesn’t change speed to the desired set speed until AFTER I let go of the ‘gas’ pedal.

The current manual version says:
“Release the accelerator pedal to allow Traffic- Aware Cruise Control to maintain your cruising speed.”

That matches my experience. I’ve had the Model 3 Standard Plus since March, so it’s possible the behaviour used to be different and the complaints here got them to change the behaviour, but the only way I could get the car to “unintendedly” accelerate was to intentionally let go of the pedal

e.g.
1. Driving 45 km/hr, speed limit sign “60”, set point in *grey* circle is 72 (based on +12 offset set).
2. Engage TACC or AP with single or double half or full down press. Blue circle now shows 72, but I’m still going 45 (keeping pedal at same exact position).
3. Continuing to keep pedal where it is, I can maintain 45 indefinitely even though blue circle shows 72. If I depress a bit I can speed up to say 50 or 55. During this whole time I can use the knob to adjust set speed from 72 up or down. Let’s say I want to not speed, I set it to 59.
4. Let go of gas pedal and car accelerates to set speed.

I’m in a Model 3 Standard Range Plus on 2019.12.1.2, but it’s always worked this way for me IIRC from 12.8.5 at least that I remember.

I am using the same work around as you do but while the current manual version says:
“Release the accelerator pedal to allow Traffic- Aware Cruise Control to maintain your cruising speed.”
release clearly means 100% release or let go.....because if you don't, you'll soon see a warning "Cruise control will not brake" which is very counter intuitive!
See photo below where I am in the process of scrolling back the speed to the one I want to set:
View media item 120407
Anyone else worked out a better solution? This has been going on for too long now. It would be better that there is a setting for the driver to let you choose between "set TACC at current speed" and "set TACC at GPS given max speed".

 

[EVnut]

Yup, gold star from me to Darth too. Crazy operation! At what point did somebody decide that there should be a use case where lifting off the surfboard-wax pedal* makes the car go faster!?

 

[EVnut]

And I need to change my profile. After about a dozen years in Spokane, I'm now living in Maui.

Doh! wish I'd known sooner. I recently returned from Maui. Spent all day every day in the water.

 

[youngmcdonald]

Sorry, didn't read all 7 pages (yet) ... but I wanted to chime in in case nobody else has yet ... it doesn't accelerate when you engage cruire control.

It only accelerates when you engage cruise control AND THEN let go of the accelerator pedal.

Until you let go of the pedal it maintains your speed that you are controlling and continue to control for as long as you like with the pedal.

If you engage cruise control AND THEN let go of the pedal, it will accelerate to your set speed if that is higher.

To avoid this, if you don't like the set speed it chose, change it before you let go of the pedal and forfeit control of speed to the car.

1. Engage TACC or AP with the stalk single or double-press
2. Look at the set speed, see if you like it
3. If you don't like it, change it.
4. Now release your foot off the accelerator pedal and relinquish control of speed to the car.

cool.
A fine example of a broken feature right there. Two actually.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Yup, gold star from me to Darth too. Crazy operation! At what point did somebody decide that there should be a use case where lifting off the surfboard-wax pedal* makes the car go faster!?

cool.
A fine example of a broken feature right there. Two actually.

I dunno... there may be some safety factors at play here. If you accidentally flick the stalk down to cruise control and have previously configured it (intentionally) to default to go speed limit + 20, then your car would potentially accelerate quickly from just an accidental flick on the stalk.

Instead, if you intentionally flick the stalk down, you can, at the same time, intentionally and purposefully control the actual full initiation of TACC by releasing the go pedal fully when you are satisfied with the set speed and not any earlier.

release clearly means 100% release or let go.....because if you don't, you'll soon see a warning "Cruise control will not brake" which is very counter intuitive!

Not sure why it's counter-intuitive. If you are on the go pedal after TACC stalk activated, it won't brake. Are you saying it's counter intuitive because TACC isn't actually fully activated yet? It's half-activated essentially. You can re-enter this "half" state later too I believe. I haven't tested that recently so I'm not sure it behaves exactly the same as the initial half-activated state though.

Anyone else worked out a better solution? This has been going on for too long now. It would be better that there is a setting for the driver to let you choose between "set TACC at current speed" and "set TACC at GPS given max speed".

I just lowered my offset to something more conservative that applies to slower city streets, changed my warning chime to be an absolute speed instead of the offset (it still remembers the offset you set though), and then raise the speed up after activating if I want to go faster.

I still always keep my foot on the accelerator after activating and only release it after looking at the speed and deciding it makes sense. If it doesn't, I adjust down if necessary and then release the pedal shortly thereafter. I never do this long enough to trigger the "won't brake" warning. I have seen the "won't brake" warning many times with TACC on though, but this is when I accelerate before lane change or something like that, not during the initial half-activation phase.

 

[Dylanpete]

I dunno... there may be some safety factors at play here. If you accidentally flick the stalk down to cruise control and have previously configured it (intentionally) to default to go speed limit + 20, then your car would potentially accelerate quickly from just an accidental flick on the stalk.

Instead, if you intentionally flick the stalk down, you can, at the same time, intentionally and purposefully control the actual full initiation of TACC by releasing the go pedal fully when you are satisfied with the set speed and not any earlier.



Not sure why it's counter-intuitive. If you are on the go pedal after TACC stalk activated, it won't brake. Are you saying it's counter intuitive because TACC isn't actually fully activated yet? It's half-activated essentially. You can re-enter this "half" state later too I believe. I haven't tested that recently so I'm not sure it behaves exactly the same as the initial half-activated state though.



I just lowered my offset to something more conservative that applies to slower city streets, changed my warning chime to be an absolute speed instead of the offset (it still remembers the offset you set though), and then raise the speed up after activating if I want to go faster.

I still always keep my foot on the accelerator after activating and only release it after looking at the speed and deciding it makes sense. If it doesn't, I adjust down if necessary and then release the pedal shortly thereafter. I never do this long enough to trigger the "won't brake" warning. I have seen the "won't brake" warning many times with TACC on though, but this is when I accelerate before lane change or something like that, not during the initial half-activation phase.

I meant it's counter intuitive because once using TACC and keeping your foot on the pedal the car wants to educate the driver to immediately get the foot off the acceleration pedal. In my model S I don't need to keep the foot on the pedal to scroll the speed that you want to drive, just one flick of the stalk sets the speed where you want it. And in the case of the Model S such warning that the car won't brake if you keep the foot on the pedal makes 100% sense. Big difference!
I think you are using the best strategy to lower the offset to something conservative and will follow that approach.
Thanks for your helpful answer!

 

[youngmcdonald]

I dunno... there may be some safety factors at play here. If you accidentally flick the stalk down to cruise control and have previously configured it (intentionally) to default to go speed limit + 20, then your car would potentially accelerate quickly from just an accidental flick on the stalk.

Instead, if you intentionally flick the stalk down, you can, at the same time, intentionally and purposefully control the actual full initiation of TACC by releasing the go pedal fully when you are satisfied with the set speed and not any earlier.



Not sure why it's counter-intuitive. If you are on the go pedal after TACC stalk activated, it won't brake. Are you saying it's counter intuitive because TACC isn't actually fully activated yet? It's half-activated essentially. You can re-enter this "half" state later too I believe. I haven't tested that recently so I'm not sure it behaves exactly the same as the initial half-activated state though.



I just lowered my offset to something more conservative that applies to slower city streets, changed my warning chime to be an absolute speed instead of the offset (it still remembers the offset you set though), and then raise the speed up after activating if I want to go faster.

I still always keep my foot on the accelerator after activating and only release it after looking at the speed and deciding it makes sense. If it doesn't, I adjust down if necessary and then release the pedal shortly thereafter. I never do this long enough to trigger the "won't brake" warning. I have seen the "won't brake" warning many times with TACC on though, but this is when I accelerate before lane change or something like that, not during the initial half-activation phase.

A simple cruise control generating so much discussion is an evidence of it being very counter intuitive.

Accelerating to your desired “cruising” speed and electronically “controlling” the car to maintain that speed after taking the foot off the accelerator pedal define the form and function of cruise control.

Accelerating to your desired “cruising” speed and the car then blatantly overruling your speed choice and setting some random higher speed after taking the foot off the accelerator pedal is not cruise control. It’s a broken feature any which way you spin it for me. It makes absolutely no sense why a user should first check what the car decided the speed it wants to set without releasing the pedal, use the scroll wheel to correct the car’s disobedience, and then release the pedal? It’s laughable.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I meant it's counter intuitive because once using TACC and keeping your foot on the pedal the car wants to educate the driver to immediately get the foot off the acceleration pedal. In my model S I don't need to keep the foot on the pedal to scroll the speed that you want to drive, just one flick of the stalk sets the speed where you want it. And in the case of the Model S such warning that the car won't brake if you keep the foot on the pedal makes 100% sense. Big difference!
I think you are using the best strategy to lower the offset to something conservative and will follow that approach.
Thanks for your helpful answer!

It’s nowhere near immediate. It takes me 1 or 2 seconds to set my speed. I had to consciously keep my foot on the pedal quite a long time to see the ‘won’t brake’ warning. Way longer than I typically take.

The warning isn’t to prompt you to immediately get the foot off the pedal, it’s to warn you that if you leave your foot on the pedal it will keep going, right into the car in front of you that might slow down, because you are controlling the speed still with your foot ... not the car.

Seems totally fine to me.

There has to be a point in time where the driver relinquishes control of the speed to the car. Having that point in time be controlled by your foot seems equally valid if not more valid than having that point in time be controlled by your hand on the stalk.

Can you describe how it works on your Model S? I’m not familiar with difference. How does a flick of the stalk set the speed where you want it? If you are driving 50 and want it at 65, flicking the stalk sets it at 65?

Or do you mean it sets it at the current speed? That’s not the speed I want most of the time.

I find most instances I engage TACC, the speed I want it at is much greater than my current speed. e.g. accelerating away from an intersection I want to engage TACC and let it get up to my chosen offset speed.
Or stuck behind a slow down or traffic on highway, I want to engage TACC and have the set speed again be my higher offset than my currently slow speed, so TACC will handle the slow/start/stop/slow for me until it can clear up and get back to my desired speed.

 

[darth_vad3r]

A simple cruise control generating so much discussion is an evidence of it being very counter intuitive.

Accelerating to your desired “cruising” speed and electronically “controlling” the car to maintain that speed after taking the foot off the accelerator pedal define the form and function of cruise control.

Accelerating to your desired “cruising” speed and the car then blatantly overruling your speed choice and setting some random higher speed after taking the foot off the accelerator pedal is not cruise control. It’s a broken feature any which way you spin it for me. It makes absolutely no sense why a user should first check what the car decided the speed it wants to set without releasing the pedal, use the scroll wheel to correct the car’s disobedience, and then release the pedal? It’s laughable.

You seem to be conflating your current speed with your desired speed. See my post above. Rarely is my current speed my desired speed when I engage TACC. Why assume the current speed is desired? You my want to decelerate or accelerate. Let the user set the speed before TACC takes over. Simple.

I like the way it works. Why would I want to set it at my current speed all the time? That’s rigid and inflexible.

 

[youngmcdonald]

You seem to be conflating your current speed with your desired speed. See my post above. Rarely is my current speed my desired speed when I engage TACC. Why assume the current speed is desired? You my want to decelerate or accelerate. Let the user set the speed before TACC takes over. Simple.

I like the way it works. Why would I want to set it at my current speed all the time? That’s rigid and inflexible.

My concern is that if the lever is only used to enable or disable CC, and scroll wheels allow user to set the speed, why not set the initial speed to current speed? user is still allowed to change it anyway.

Question is really just about initial speed. Otherwise it works well.

Usability calls for consistency. Did I ask the car to set the initial speed to the posted speed limit YET? No. Then if you want ME to have the flexibility to decide my desired speed using wheels, don’t behave inconsistently and let me deal with setting the initial speed. Do what’s asked (enable CC). When TACC is in effect, you can adjust the speed and I can override.

 

[darth_vad3r]

My concern is that if the lever is only used to enable or disable CC, and scroll wheels allow user to set the speed, why not set the initial speed to current speed? user is still allowed to change it anyway.

Question is really just about initial speed. Otherwise it works well.

Usability calls for consistency. Did I ask the car to set the initial speed to the posted speed limit YET? No. Then if you want ME to have the flexibility to decide my desired speed using wheels, don’t behave inconsistently and let me deal with setting the initial speed. Do what’s asked (enable CC). When TACC is in effect, you can adjust the speed and I can override.

It’s a convenience feature to have the speed set to your desired offset. If you don’t want that, set a large negative offset and you’ll get initial speed to your current speed. Easy. You can do it both ways. I like it the way it is.

 

[Reese]

In my model s if I engage cc by pulling lever down or up instead of towards me it sets it to my current speed no matter the offset and no matter what it thinks the streets speed limit is. If I pull it towards me it sets it at my offset or the perceived speed limit based on gps.

 

[mpt]

In my model s...

We know... we want that for our 3's

 

[EVnut]

It’s a convenience feature to have the speed set to your desired offset. If you don’t want that, set a large negative offset and you’ll get initial speed to your current speed. Easy. You can do it both ways. I like it the way it is.

The two issues that don't make this "easy" (which seems to imply that it would work perfectly, and with no further effort or care).

1. If the speed limit is 65 mph and I engage TACC at anything below 45 mph, I'm off to the races. -20 is the max negative offset.
2. This workaround prevents use of what this tool is apparently meant for (assumed from the label). A speed alert.

Sure it *can* be done both ways. But clearly it only really works as designed the way that you prefer to use it. It is merely a kludge for those of us who would like it to always engage at the current speed.

 

[Reese]

We know... we want that for our 3's

I have never driven a model 3. Was not sure how they operated differently. That is very inconvenient for you model 3 owners I am sure they will offer up a solution.

 

[EVnut]

I like the way it works. Why would I want to set it at my current speed all the time? That’s rigid and inflexible.

Obviously there are many people who like the way it works. And I'm happy that it works so well for you. I can't possibly answer why YOU would want it set at your current speed. But I'll tell you why I do: So that the system is not so rigid and inflexible, and dependent on what the car thinks the speed limit is at that moment. This thing does not adapt to local conditions like weather/visibility. And the biggest: I simply never want my car to accelerate at the moment I set the TACC. I can achieve a faster speed in two compelling ways that require my controlled input: the right pedal, or the right scroll wheel.

Question back to you: If you don't desire to be going your current speed when you set the TACC, why don't you first attain the speed that you like before setting it? Do you ALWAYS like to go the speed that the car thinks is the speed limit, plus or minus some offset?

And while the car shouldn't always allow for my failures, it has put me in a dangerous situation when I've inadvertently pulled the lever down once to clear my windshield while pulling out of a parking space (On my Toyota, that lever is the wiper control... it happens). The car leapt forward, trying to achieve the speed limit of the road just outside the parking lot.