Transport Evolved

[aminorjourney]

Sorry for the out-of sync video with last week's expisode, and Michael's poor audio.

We had several technical glitches during the show last week which prevented it from being a 'one'take - so part of the audio had to be recaptured from our video stream. This is hardly perfect and required a lot of editing.

Hopefully thought, this week will be much better.

Thanks for the comments. Keep them coming.

And yes, the show really IS radio with pictures. Which is why you see the microphones etc. I see it is as part of the podcasting roots.

Nikki.

 

[mpt]

Transport Evolved 45 - Miles Till Empty

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield from AllCarsElectric.com and Michael Thwaite from TeslaMotorsClub with guest Marc Geller from PluginAmerica as they discuss the week’s news in the world of green vehicles including how far a 2011 Nissan Leaf can go, fast charging for EVs, the new 2012 Toyota RAV4EV and much more.

 

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Transport Evolved 46 - Three Finger Salute

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield and Michael Thwaite with guest John Voelcker from GreenCarReports as they discuss the week's news in the world of green vehicles, including the 2011 Nissan Leaf AC Restart problem, Landspeed electric motorcycle records and much more.

 

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Transport Evolved 47 - Brain Must Work

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield from AllCarsElectric.com with guest Jeff Lander from EVnation.org and EV Charger Finder as they discuss the week’s news in the world of green vehicles, including the 2011 Nissan Leaf Recalls, BMW’s ActiveE launch, Counterspill and much more.

 

[JRP3]

I didn't quite understand your concern with the neutral spot on the A pedal regen. They could still allow as much regen as they want, there should just be an easily held coasting position before regen kicks in. It needn't be that large and a quick lift of the pedal should transition through it seamlessly. My car has a small neutral spot that is a little too narrow and takes some work to hold. I'm hoping to find a programmer to stretch it out a bit, but I'll still have the full regen available past the neutral spot.

 

[mpt]

The MINI E has a very un-responsive accelerator; it's very slow to respond compared to the Roadster; if you're cruising in the MINI and quickly release then floor then return the accelerator to where it was before; nothing would happen, do that in the roadster and, as you know, you'd smash the front and rear on the cars ahead and behind! I'm concerned that this extra dead area will make it very 'nice' but dull. I'll reserve judgement but that was where my concern lay.

They did say at the event that common industry wisdom says "reduce your regen, no one likes it" and they conceded that they were limited by it being rear-drive however, they also said "...but you (MINI E Pioneers) told us no-way so we'll give you as much regen as we can". They then went on to say that PRO ECO mode would increase regen and reduce AC and throttle response. I'm concluding that we'll see two modes power, HVAC & light regen or PRO ECO which will be less power, less HVAC and more regen. I want all the power with keen response, all the regen and all the AC.

On a side note, I'm at odds with the notion of coast mode, I get that it's better to coast than regen but, I considered that and have completed a couple of trips into the city in the last 48hrs. Whilst on the highway, I'm either on gentle power holding 65mph or I'm on regen holding back to 65mph on the hills. I'd get more efficiency coasting but I'd also drift into the ICE in front or get a ticket for speeding. I foresee a slow motion kangaroo action between drive then drift then surge into regen when I realise the car has hit 70mph.

The good news is that it's software, if it doesn't work, they patch it out, if it does then everyone; Leaf, Tesla, V, gets firmware updates.

 

[TEG]

The Leaf has a go-pedal that requires a fair amount of insistence before it starts to provide respectable acceleration.
In ECO mode, it is fairly extreme (as in feeling very sluggish even with moderate pedal push). I assume this is all in the name of trying to convince the driver to drive more efficiently.
Actually, the overall sedate nature of the car lends one to feeling more relaxed and perhaps prone to driving more slowly and calmly in general. If efficiency is the goal, that is probably the way to do it.
The Roadster, on the other hand, taunts you to "push it" with its' highly responsive nature.

I have to use the brake pedal (with the blended regen) much more frequently in the Leaf, and I miss having the "one pedal" experience you get in the Roadster. But, if coasting buys some range, I would concede every little bit helps when having only 24kWh...

 

[JRP3]

Ideally we'd get a user tweakable interface so that each owner can customize his favorite settings. Full power/full regen for sport driving, reduced power and increased neutral zone for eco driving, all adjustable to whatever degree you wish. Probably not going to happen.
Certainly in traffic coasting is not going to work too well but there are many places where it will.

 

[TEG]

Perhaps even just a momentary button to enable "slow down mode". As you approach a stop sign in town you would press it once to change coast mode to regen mode. Once you stopped and started up again it would be back to coast mode. Coast mode is fine if I am just sailing along unimpeded, but when I am a half block from a stop sign I want to start a gradual slowdown, it would be preferable to not have to hold the brake pedal half way down the whole way.

 

[JRP3]

This all got me thinking, since my controller can use a brake pedal transducer to vary regen intensity I might be able to add a potentiometer to dial in my desired regen, or turn it off completely, on the fly. Don't know if that circuit works if A pedal regen is enabled, have to dig through the manual.

 

[TEG]

Reminder: ACP E-Box has a dash mounted slider to adjust level of regen. Fun feature to have, not sure why others don't provide it. (Maybe too 'geeky'?)

 

[vfx]

Reminder: ACP E-Box has a dash mounted slider to adjust level of regen. Fun feature to have, not sure why others don't provide it. (Maybe too 'geeky?')

My favorite feature of the car. All electrics should have it.

Also sounds like a "neutral" or "coast" button or lever would be good as well.

 

[JRP3]

That would be handled by adjusting regen to zero.

 

[vfx]

That would be handled by adjusting regen to zero.

Right, but I was thinking something more immediate.

 

[Sparrow]

I had a Solectria Force and I routinely used the coast switch to shut regen off while driving on the highway. Never had a real problem, but there were a few times in which I came off the highway and forgot regen was off and had to use the friction brakes to slowdown.

 

[JRP3]

After thinking a bit more I realize that I can't use the braking circuit to reduce regen on the A pedal because they are independent, of course. Doh! Changing A pedal regen requires programming access in my controller and I can't do that on the fly. I might be able to wire in another potentiometer in parallel with the throttle and set that to provide a "virtual" throttle signal to the controller that equates to a coasting throttle position, or any position I want, allowing full regen control.

 

[dpeilow]

They did say at the event that common industry wisdom says "reduce your regen, no one likes it" and they conceded that they were limited by it being rear-drive however, they also said "...but you (MINI E Pioneers) told us no-way so we'll give you as much regen as we can".

What is this common industry wisdom of which they speak? People that haven't driven it? I thought the whole point of the Mini-E trial was to find out what people want.

 

[JRP3]

There does seem to be a break with reality where most people who actually drive EV's love strong A pedal regen yet companies seem to think the general public can't deal with it. Maybe it's as simple as early EV adopters are just more adventurous and embrace change more easily than the general public. I guess what "most people" want is familiarity, and we're all abnormal :scared::tongue: I'll take that, who wants to be normal?

 

[TEG]

Optimized for low rolling resistance, and burdened with heavy battery packs, EVs that don't provide off pedal regen tend to want to coast even more than an average car.
It can be disconcerting to take your foot off of the pedals and have it seem like the car doesn't intend to slow down at all.
At least with a car like the Leaf, the acceleration is modest enough that you don't find yourself overshooting intended speed too much.

With a vehicle that accelerates like the Roadster, without off pedal regen I think people would find themselves ending up coasting along much faster than they should.
The Roadster drive is like "stab of the fun pedal", then ease off and regen back to sane speeds. If the Roadster didn't have fairly aggressive off pedal regen, then people would have to resort to liberal use of the non-blended friction brake pedal which would hurt efficiency and wear down those brake pads.

We discussed some of the philosophy behind regen behavior at length in years past (so we could go dredge up some of those old threads if need be), but I distill some of it like this:

If you are used to a high performance manual transmission car (say a Ferrari) then heavy off pedal regen makes sense. Simulated engine braking comparable what you get from a high revving performance ICE vehicle. So in this way, the Roadster behavior is appropriate to someone used to driving high performance sports cars.

On the other hand, if you are used to a legacy ICE vehicle with an automatic transmission, coasting behavior is more familiar.

With that said, I sure wish the Leaf had a way to temporarily activate more off pedal regen for situations like driving down steep grades, or even for stop-and-go traffic.

 

[JRP3]

I don't think any manufacturers are going to zero A pedal regen, I assume they are trying to make them feel similar to typical automatic ICE's.