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Tread wear question

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by skip8jj, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. skip8jj

    skip8jj Member

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    Tesla rotated my tires today. With 7,800 miles, all four tires measure 7mm outer side, 7mm middle and 6mm inside. These are Michelin Primacy, 19" tires on a MS-70D. Close to 80% of the miles on the car are highway miles as opposed to local miles. Tire pressure has been kept at about 45 psi, cold. A significant number of those miles were in high temperature weather, 90 to 102 or slightly more.

    What does it mean when the inside edge of the tire, all tires in this case, wear slightly faster than the center and out side edge? Thank you
     
  2. Maximapolak

    Maximapolak Member

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    Do you have air suspension?
     
  3. skip8jj

    skip8jj Member

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    The car has coil suspension.
     
  4. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    #4 scottm, Nov 24, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
    There's a thousand sites on the web with this kind of information...

    Here's one Tire Tread Wear: Causes And Symptoms - Tomorrows Technician

    Inner-Edge Tread Wear

    Inner-edge tire tread wear is the most common tread wear problem most technicians see. The angles causing this type of wear are typically negative toe and camber. For parts, there are three component sources of the inner-edge tread wear: bushings, springs and loads.



    For Tesla, or any car, a particular "factory defined" alignment achieves specific goals. You are also free to re-align for your own goals. An alignment expert can talk you through this...

    Losing a little rubber on the inner edge due to toe or camber ... can be expected and acceptable if you like the way the car is handling. You're going to burn a little rubber off there... but the return might be an extra planted feeling on hard fast turns .. and quicker quick turns.

    If you dial all the toe and camber out... you get a more typical complacent sedan. Although a Tesla will never feel like a Ford Taurus, or a Toyota Camry you're going in that direction.

    Can you afford 1mm of "more fun"? ... then no alignment needed. It's even all around. Excellent!

    If you think it's worth it, you could remount the rubber across each axle on the car and balance the wear out a bit... but... tire machines on rims has its toll on wear and tear too.
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    It means that the alignment isn't correct. Just because the alignment machine says that everything is "in-spec" doesn't mean anything if the machine is out of calibration.
     
  6. skip8jj

    skip8jj Member

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    Thank you for the break down. The car handles very well, very nimble but cannot be thrown around like a typical sports car but so much more agile than any ICE sedan. Hard to believe it is as heavy as it is. Guess I will leave it be until its ready for its annual.
     
  7. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    Or if you don't want to wait, I think most alignment shops around here will do a look-see on the rack for you if they're not busy, for free, it's so fast to set some up now with laser guided wheel clamps. It will show you if your alignment is out of spec at which point they hope you'll get an alignment done then and now if it's bad! Can always say "no thanks" not severe enough. It's also a test to see if they have Tesla in their database. Any good shop would have it by now.
     
  8. skip8jj

    skip8jj Member

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    @scottm, I was beginning to have second thoughts. There is a good shop near by that I can go to.
     
  9. Max*

    Max* Banned

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    7,800 miles and you only have 6-7mm of tread left? Do you drive heavy footed? Lots of sprints? That seems like very excessive wear for such little driving distance.
     
  10. skip8jj

    skip8jj Member

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    No, my lifetime average is 288 Wh/mile. No sprints. Perhaps some of it comes from driving it in some hot weather in the SW. Maximum was at least 102f.
     
  11. tliving

    tliving Member

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    I got 50,000 miles on my original Michelin Primacy tires. All of them wore more on the inside edge than elsewhere but at 50K miles I'm quite happy with the result so I wouldn't change anything.

    IMG_8655.jpg
     
  12. Max*

    Max* Banned

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    Just for reference, I love my Michelin Primacy tires. I'm at 30k miles now, and I measured this weekend and have between 5-6/32" left per tire. I have a higher wh/mi lifetime (325ish).

    I'm hoping to make it to 50k miles, but I'd be OK with 45k miles on this set.
     
  13. dhcp

    dhcp Member

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    This might be a total newbie question, but with the 19" factory Primacy tires, how often do you rotate them to achieve these great (40k+) lifespans?

    I assume the factory cyclones be rotated just front to back?
     
  14. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    It's more about keeping the alignment correct and keeping the tire pressure up than it is about about rotation. Any rotation method can be used, but I believe most just do front to back because it's the easiest.
     
  15. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    Rotate every 5000 miles. Do the first rotation on any new set of tires early, at 2500 miles. Some may argue that rotating this often isn't necessary for even tread wear, and in a lot of cases it isn't, but I believe the tires will last longer and remain quieter later in their life if this rotation schedule is adhered to.

    Rotation pattern can be debated, as there are multiple valid ways to do it. However, I feel that the rearward-cross pattern works best for even wear and keeping the tires quiet. You can use the rearward-cross pattern on RWD or AWD vehicles, as long as the tires are in a square setup (this means that all 4 tires and wheels are the same size), and use non-directional tires. All non-performance Teslas (non-"P" models) come from the factory in a square setup with non-directional tires.

    Performance model Teslas (most of them) come from the factory with a staggered setup (this means that the rear tires and wheels are larger than the front tires and wheels). You cannot use the rearward-cross (or forward-cross, or X-pattern, or same-side swap) pattern with a staggered setup. The only rotation option is same-axle swap, and you must be using non-directional tires.

    For completeness, here is a full tire rotation schedule for all Tesla models, with both factory and aftermarket wheels/tires:

    Abbreviations
    FL=Front Left
    BL=Back Left
    FR=Front Right
    BR=Back Right

    Rotation Patterns
    Rearward Cross: BL -> FL -> BR -> FR -> BL
    Forward Cross: FL -> BL -> FR -> BR -> FL
    X-Pattern: FL <-> BR, and BL <-> FR
    Same-Side Swap: FL <-> BL, and FR <-> BR
    Same-Axle Swap: FL <-> FR, and BL <-> BR

    Recommended pattern for each combination of RWD/AWD, Square/Staggered Setup, Non-Directional/Directional Tires
    RWD, Square, Non-Directional (Factory setup for non-P RWD cars and some P RWD cars): Rearward Cross
    RWD, Square, Directional: Same-Side Swap
    RWD, Staggered, Non-Directional: (Factory setup for most P RWD cars): Same-Axle Swap
    RWD, Staggered, Directional: Rotation not possible without dismount/remount of tires

    AWD, Square, Non-Directional (Factory setup for non-P AWD cars and some P AWD cars): Rearward Cross, or X-Pattern
    AWD, Square, Directional: Same-Side Swap
    AWD, Staggered, Non-Directional (Factory setup for most P AWD cars): Same-Axle Swap
    AWD, Staggered, Directional: Rotation not possible without dismount/remount of tires


    No Tesla was delivered from the factory with directional tires, so they would have to be aftermarket for you to have them. Directional tires are easily identified because the tread pattern makes a repeating "V" shape. They are also marked on the sidewall with an arrow indicating the correct direction of rotation. Very few aftermarket tires in the Tesla sizes are directional, so having these will be something of a unicorn.

    Note that if you have multiple tire sets (e.g. summer and winter set) that the rotation schedule and patterns apply individually to each set. Your summer set might be staggered, so must use same-axle swap pattern, while the winter set might be square, and so should use rearward cross.

    Note that all Tesla and 99% of aftermarket wheels do not have a direction or side of the car that they belong on. The Tesla cyclones and turbines can rotate to any position provided that the tire that's on them conforms to the rules above.
     
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  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The early rotation mentioned by SomeJoe777 is the most important one as it sets up the tires for even wear later in life.
     
  17. Zetopan

    Zetopan Member

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    "Performance model Teslas (most of them) come from the factory with a staggered setup (this means that the rear tires and wheels are larger than the front tires and wheels)"

    That does not appear to be correct. Only the 21" wheels come staggered, the 19" wheels are identical for front and rear. Or are you also saying that most performance models have 21" wheels?
     
  18. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    It's fairly common that P models are ordered with 21" wheels. Yes, if you do get 19" wheels they will be square.
     
  19. mrElbe

    mrElbe Active Member

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    I ordered my P85D with 19" wheels. Summer tires have 66,470 km ( 41,030 miles ) on them and still good tread.
     
  20. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    Now that I think about it, I guess that's an interesting question.

    Are all 21" wheel sets from Tesla staggered? If you order 21" wheels on a P model, I'm fairly sure they're staggered, although I think there were some short periods of time in the past where they were delivering 21" square sets.

    If you order a non-P model with 21" wheels, are they square or staggered? Have those varied over time also?
     

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