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Trip planner issues - Ontario

Discussion in 'Canada' started by dj905, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. dj905

    dj905 Member

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    Location:
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    Last week I drove to Ottawa from my home just west of Toronto. After stopping for a coffee at the ONroute in Port Hope, the trip planner gave me some very strange directions. Rather than drive direct to Kingston, which was 164km from my stop, and could be achieved with an estimated 24% of range remaining... the tool suggested that I drive 701km via Buffalo and Syracuse.

    Has anyone else seen this behaviour? Any ideas about what is happening here?

    I was wondering if Lake Ontario is causing the problem... perhaps the closest Supercharger to my location was actually Buffalo (as the crow flies)?

    David

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  2. mrElbe

    mrElbe Member

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    You might be onto something here since all the Supercharger distances given are "as the crow flies"
     
  3. Phillip L

    Phillip L Member

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    Location:
    Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada
    Got all kinds of wacky things like that one in about the same area earlier this month. Was driving west and kept telling me to turn back to Kingston after I had left it.
     
  4. mibaro2

    mibaro2 Member

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    Location:
    Georgetown, ON
    The trip planner does seem to try to put you to the nearest SC (as the crow flies) even if you don't need the charge.
    One owner here said every morning when he left his house that is 5 minutes from an SC, the trip planner routed him there even if he was at 90% SOC.

    When I have been in downtown T.O., the trip planner is pushing me towards the Laurence SC even though I can get home with plenty of battery charge left.
     
  5. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    #FAIL

    After using the trip planner extensively over the past month, I've seen interesting examples of wacky routes, but this one is the more bizarre!

    Like others noted, I've had the "go back to where you last charged" show up 10 minutes into a road trip stint, and just ignored it until I was half way to the destination where the advice switches and shows that we can make it with just under %20 to spare.

    Another one was recommending a route that would take us 1000 km out of our way, but still in the same general direction.

    Also, I did wonder why the distance to superchargers seemed wrong and now it's making more sense that these are "as the crow flies" distances. Good find!
     
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Unfortunately the trip planner is a total fail. What you end up doing is hitting the "remove chargers" button, and manually selecting Superchargers as your destination. On my last trip I actually resorted to using my phone to navigate. Google Maps knew how to get me to the next Supercharger (with gobs of range left) by taking a shorter route and eschewing the Interstate; the built-in navigation just kept trying to send me the long way.

    On the way back, the Trip Planner actually tried to send me on a ludicrous route that would have run me out of charge! Guaranteed!

    I think the problem here is that the Trip Planner is sort of kludged on top of the already weak Navigon system. It lets Navigon calculate a route, then it tries to find Superchargers near that route, then starts Navigon again with these Superchargers as new waypoints. The problem with that approach is that it misses major route alternatives that have convenient Superchargers. What they need to do is start out looking for all Superchargers even remotely near a straight-line route, then the calculate routes through those waypoints and then pick the optimum based on (a) success and (b) total trip time.
     
  7. dj905

    dj905 Member

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    Good suggestions Doug. I also think that the planner should do a "test routing" to see if you can simply get to the destination without needing to charge. It makes no sense to go to a charger if you are going to have 24% range left at the destination without stopping.
     
  8. rapoport3a

    rapoport3a Member

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    Ontario
    FWIW, before Tesla, my Garmin GPS told me to get to Chicago from Toronto via Montréal. But yes, Tesla's trip planner is not worth using. You'd think that by this time they would have fixed its worst errors. The car may be rocket science, but trip planning isn't, even with various chargers included.
     
  9. iKhalid

    iKhalid Member

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    Location:
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    I've seen worse during many trips from the GTA to Ottawa and vice versa in the last few months. Even from Mississauga to Toronto, the navigation is unreliable at all, especially during rush hours...
     
  10. mrElbe

    mrElbe Member

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    I just traveled to Great Barrington, Mass. and Winsted CT and return and the trip planner was flawless. All of the percent battery left predictions were conservative and I had usually 5% more than predicted despite "spirited" driving and A/C on. Went there via Kingston, Syracuse (stayed there overnight) and Albany chargers. Return via Albany, Syracuse and Buffalo chargers. Even on the return rerouted my via the Rainbow bridge due to heavy traffic at Lewiston border crossing.
    Will be travelling to north of Philadelphia in 2 weeks. We'll see how it does.
     
  11. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    In certain areas it works fine. But in many cases it is completely wrong, even in areas well covered by Superchargers. I was travelling between Kamloops and Hope, BC when all of a sudden it decided that I had to return to Kamloops. Mid-trip! Despite the prediction being for an arrival with 11% battery remaining. (Not a huge buffer, but enough).

    And anyone on the prairies or in northern Ontario will recognize what idiocy is involved in the algorithm. It takes a simple, straightforward trip from Dryden to Kenora, for example, and turns it into an impossible 1053 km trip through the Duluth supercharger. I pretty much had to wait, every time, for it to finish its lunacy, hit "TRIP", hit "Remove charging stops", and then wait again for it to recompute. Meanwhile, the rest of the user interface is frozen.

    Honestly, I could have implemented a smarter algorithm and more responsive user interface with both hands (and one brain) tied behind my back.

    2015-08-09-10-41-58-2H6A1455.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Even that doesn't work, as it will occasionally suddenly decide mid-trip to alter your route, including sending you back to the Supercharger you just left.

    Good insight, excellent analysis. I expect that you're spot on.


    P.S. I still love the car. :)
     
  12. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    If all else fails, there is an option to turn off the trip planner feature. I remember seeing it in one of the Settings screens. They still consider it Beta (which is generous lol).

    Yeah I still love the car. This feature could be pretty awesome with some more work.
     
  13. Neil_S

    Neil_S Member

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    Just finished 1st road trip - Ottawa <-> SW Ont (only had 70D for 2 months). I too experienced the "return to xx Supercharger" minutes after leaving and being told that I'd charged enough + often 10-15min extra charging.

    FWIW I think the problem is tied to avg. energy consumption used in calculations. In all cases I had a/c running while charging. Leaving, my avg. was +300 wh/km, versus ~180 on arrival. The return message would come up a few minutes after leaving. Once the avg. returned back to ~180, trip planner gave up on having me return and okayed pushing ahead.

    I've had no success at routing from Ottawa south west without being directed thru Cornwall; even at full charge (I know my 70D doesn't have as much range, but at this time of the year, Kingston is comfortable drive even at 80%). Can't figure that one out.

    Car's a great drive; trip planner is handy for finding SC locations otherwise gem in the rough!
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Just got back from a quick Toronto trip. LOL the trip planner was on LSD this time.

    First of all, even though the car knows about the Port Hope Supercharger, the trip planner obviously does NOT. As a result it tried to tell us to drive slowly to the Lawrence Supercharger.

    The trip planner gave only bizarre advice at all times. Well, okay, the one time it gave usable information by suggesting when we had enough charge to leave the Kingston Supercharger. (That said, I would have had to drive more slowly had I left when it suggested.)

    Leaving Toronto, we were at 100% charge, and the trip planner tried to get us to backtrack to the Lawrence Supercharger. That would have made things worse, not better.

    So pretty much 100% fail.
     
  15. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    You mean there are some people who still have this feature turned ON???? I thought it was pretty well known that it was completely hopeless and caused more issues than it was worth...

    I tried to get it to navigate to Nordegg AB the other day from Calgary, The "correct" way is to go north to the Red Deer supercharger, and then west to Nordegg. (approximately 326km, 3hrs 20 minutes plus charging)
    The car suggested west to the Canmore Supercharger, then further west to the Golden Supercharger, then back east to Lake Louise and up through the park, this would have been 516km or 6hrs, and an extra supercharging stop. And worse yet, it doesn't even make any sense.
    The Golden supercharger is 1km closer to Nordegg then the Canmore one, but would add 158km to the trip, But the Red Deer Supercharger is significantly closer to the destination than either of them, and well within my driving range from home.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    ...it amuses me.
     
  17. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I had a weird Trip Planner fail last week on my way back from Chicago. I was routed through St. Joseph - Ann Arbor - Comber - Woodstock. I reached St. Joseph and it told me when I had enough to continue, but we were still eating, so I let it continue charging. About 15 miles away from St. Joseph, it suddenly wanted me to get off the Interstate, turn around and head back to St. Joseph. WTF? I was freaked out that I might not have enough juice to make it to Ann Arbor. I turned off the Trip Planner and just selected Ann Arbor as my destination and it worked fine, getting me there with about 25% to spare. I just used Supercharger to Supercharger routing after that.
     
  18. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    Wife left for downtown Toronto today and was routed through the Lawrence supercharger, um, car was 90% charged for a 25 km trip, what? Anyway, she figured it out and didn't lose too much time. She did remind me that I told her yesterday to trust the traffic aware routing, as the sloppy road conditions might lead to road closure or blocked conditions this morning. Little did I think the trip software would choose this moment when I'm not in the car to act up. Oh well, she did compliment the grip of the car in the bad conditions, so she is quietly confident in the RWD Tesla in the snow now.
     
  19. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    If you live anywhere near a Supercharger it's probably best to turn off the Trip Planner feature.
     
  20. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    True, but I was surprised in my example above that a planned route would just abort part way through the drive and try to turn me back... for apparently no good reason.

    One of the reasons I was a bit freaked is that the next Supercharger (Ann Arbor) was showing as a grey icon instead of the usual red for Superchargers. I wondered if Ann Arbor had gone off-line or something and that was why the sudden re-routing. No other warnings, however and Ann Arbor was fine when I got there (aside from 3 stalls being ICEd).
     

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