Trip planner issues - Ontario

[Aussie Bob]

I have experienced problems leaving the super charger in Toronto as I head for Kingston and then Ottawa. I set my route for the Kingston supercharger, yes the Kingston supercharger, but I was continually reminded to return to Lawrence to charge up, despite the fact that I had just filled up to 90% 10 minutes ago! I turned the system off and waited until I was well past Port Hope before setting the system again. So even setting the system from one supercharger to the next, I still had problems.

This is is okay when you know the route and distances etc., and the system tells you something idiotic; however what about the situation when you are in virgin territory?

Despite the GPS we still keep a MAP in the car to verify what the GPS is telling us!! You need to know the distance to your next stop and know your car's limits to confirm whether you can reach your destination safely.

We we need something better, especially from a high tech car like the Tesla!

 

[Doug_G]

Always start out conservatively - the earlier you moderate your speed, the less you'll have to. Keep an eye on the energy app, and you can always speed up after a while if you've got excess range.

And no, the cars aren't designed to transfer power.

 

[SmartElectric]

The range indicator on the dash is known as 'rated range', and is not meant to be used as gospel. Charge to at least 20% buffer beyond the point where the trip planner says. Remember, the trip planner navigation is not calculating that you will be speeding. Dropping speed works far better to drive further than turning off heat.

 

[SmartElectric]

Using booster cables wouldn't help. Electric cars use a lot more energy than what you get from a 12 volt connection.

 

[RiverBrick]

The range indicator on the dash is known as 'rated range', and is not meant to be used as gospel...

He was going by the trip-planner, not by the rated range. I would be curious to know if this trip was with 7.1 or 7.0, to know if 7.1 is more weather-aware pre-trip than prior versions.

 

[SmartElectric]

He said he charged to 309 km, so that is why I noted rated range is not to be taken as what distance you could drive.

We changed our settings to show battery percentage remaining, as the rated km was never achievable at th highway speeds we drive.

 

[sandpiper]

On my trip back from Windsor on Sunday night, charged up at Comber to 300kms range with GPS saying it was more than needed. Pulled into Woodstock with just 4kms of range left. Last 100kms of the drive with heat on and off. Temp was about -10c. Started drive at 120 kms an hour, reduced to 100kms and finished between 85 and 95kms an hour on the 401.

Friend in the car asked what happens if we don't make it. He said Tesla should supply booster cables with one end that is just a plug to go into the Tesla. The other end goes on a running cars battery....wonder if it would work?

The trip planner is quite unrealistic in very cold weather; it consistently underestimates real world power usage. Maybe it works in California.

What WOULD be useful is a Tesla to Tesla jumper cable that would allow you to drive a high DC current from one car to another - effectively using it as a portable supercharger. It would be much better than a flatbed. There is no conceptual reason why that can't work. But there is likely something in the current circuitry that prevents power from going out of the charge port.

 

[llavalle]

The trip planner is quite unrealistic in very cold weather; it consistently underestimates real world power usage. Maybe it works in California.

From my experience, you have to drive just under the posted speed limit to get accurate results...at least in my 85D. Range mode must be on. Interior temp set to 18C. No Rain/Snow outside. Did a recent trip to Burlington : drove 90kph in Canada and 55-60mph in the US. The trip planner was spot on (less than 1% difference at destination)

 

[Forty Creek]

He was going by the trip-planner, not by the rated range. I would be curious to know if this trip was with 7.1 or 7.0, to know if 7.1 is more weather-aware pre-trip than prior versions.

Off topic here, but I don't believe the trip planner is weather-aware in any version (although Elon said it was coming in some time ago).

 

[RiverBrick]

Off topic here, but I don't believe the trip planner is weather-aware in any version (although Elon said it was coming in some time ago).

You're right, I was being generous in suggesting that it was weather aware, but there is some crude accounting for HVAC usage---if you happen to be heating or cooling the cabin when you enter the trip, it will take the HVAC's rate of consumption at the time and apply it to the entire trip. I tested this several times last Winter. With 4 kW going to the heater, it would calculate that I'd use 90% of the battery for a 3-hour trip, but with the heat off it would predict using only 75%.

However, it doesn't make any attempt to factor in wind-resistance changing due to temperature, losses due to battery warming when it's extremely cold, or impact from wind.

I just entered the Comber to Woodstock run into the evtripplanner. It's an excellent tool. Last year, it would only be about 3% too optimist for me, perhaps due to the impact of Winter tires. The Tesla planner would be off by 30% or more when it was -20C.

With a Speed Multiplier of 1.0, EV Tripplanner assumes a cruising a speed of 108 kph for the 401. The only parameters changed were temp to -15C and vehicle to 85 RWD/19". It predicted 269 rated km to drive the 185.1 km.

With multiplier set to 1.11, payload to 300 kg for a large family + luggage and temp of -20C, it's 303 rated km, which for me would probably mean charging to 340 rated km and driving slower. (Screenshot attached).

 

[Chrisizzle]

Off topic here, but I don't believe the trip planner is weather-aware in any version (although Elon said it was coming in some time ago).

I don't know if it 'needs' to be weather aware but I am surprised it doesn't take past driving into account. Like, if the chart for the last 50km shows you are averaging 250kw/h, the future estimates should work with that rather than 'ideal' numbers.

 

[sandpiper]

I don't know if it 'needs' to be weather aware but I am surprised it doesn't take past driving into account. Like, if the chart for the last 50km shows you are averaging 250kw/h, the future estimates should work with that rather than 'ideal' numbers.

To me, it's completely absurd that it doesn't take into account the current and projected temperature, the projected winds, intended speed (+/- relative to the speed limit, say) and elevation changes. All of this data is easily available on-line.

This is what I think that the system should do:

a) Enter in your destination, route, etc...
b) Enter in your desired max speed, +/- relative to speed limit.
c) Enter in your desired minimum charge level left at destination (in % or RKM)

The car will then, using temperature, cabin heat settings, winds, elevation changes, etc..:

- calculate the minimum trip time.
- give you the maximum speed that you can drive to ensure arrival with the stipulated minimum charge
- instruct you to enable range mode if required
- continuously update the calculations as you drive, taking into consideration expected vs actual consumption.
- continuously provide an updated maximum speed for you to be driving at that time.
- feed that information back to the cruise control, preventing unintentional lead-foot.

The simple fact is the EV Trip-planner seems to do a better job than the Tesla in-car system. Tesla should be a little embarrassed by that.

 

[beeeerock]

Tesla should be a little embarrassed by that.

Absolutely incorrect!!!

They should be a LOT embarrassed by that!

 

[Chrisizzle]

To me, it's completely absurd that it doesn't take into account the current and projected temperature, the projected winds, intended speed (+/- relative to the speed limit, say) and elevation changes. All of this data is easily available on-line.

I am reminded of this Louis CK comedy sketch.

I don't know about you, but my last car didn't have route planning and ones that did certainly didn't factor in winds, speed, altitude, interior and exterior temperature to figure out your gas milage. Yet now, something that didn't even exist a year ago isn't good enough because it doesn't. Yes, I understand there is some difference because we can't just pull into any station to fill up but still, it isn't 'absurd' that it doesn't do these things.

https://youtu.be/q8LaT5Iiwo4?t=2m

 

[RiverBrick]

At least after 20-30 km it will modify its original estimation and come up with a decent estimation.

According to supercharge.info, there are 11 sites under construction currently world-wide. At this time last year there were eight sites with construction status in Canada alone.

 

[SmartElectric]

I don't know about you, but my last car didn't have route planning and ones that did certainly didn't factor in winds, speed, altitude, interior and exterior temperature to figure out your gas milage. Yet now, something that didn't even exist a year ago isn't good enough because it doesn't.

+1 Exactly! We've never run out in our Tesla, and have only cut it close a few times, most recently we needed a L2 charge to get home with a buffer.

Rather than driving slowly we grabbed a snack and chilled out for 40 mins to make sure we had 20% estimate on trip planner, and then sped to use up the buffer and arrived home with 13%. Yes, we could have made it home with less than 5% had we skipped the L2 charge, but given that others have experienced shut off near that point in cold weather, there was no use risking it.

We've found the trip planner is more than satisfactory for our use. We always charge to a buffer of 20% more than the planner states, because we usually use 20% more energy than would be the case if we drove the speed limit perfectly (if you get my point). Besides, charging a bit more at the supercharger is free, and is almost always charging faster in rated km of range added per hour compared to highway driving speed, so charge longer and drive faster.

 

[mrElbe]

Right on! "charge longer and drive faster" is what I do. That way I have peace of mind and normal heat in the cabin.

 

[sandpiper]

Absolutely incorrect!!!

They should be a LOT embarrassed by that!

Ok... I stand corrected!

- - - Updated - - -

I am reminded of this Louis CK comedy sketch.

I don't know about you, but my last car didn't have route planning and ones that did certainly didn't factor in winds, speed, altitude, interior and exterior temperature to figure out your gas milage. Yet now, something that didn't even exist a year ago isn't good enough because it doesn't. Yes, I understand there is some difference because we can't just pull into any station to fill up but still, it isn't 'absurd' that it doesn't do these things.

https://youtu.be/q8LaT5Iiwo4?t=2m

I would agree, were it not for a few things:

1. The consequences of running low on fuel with my prior ICE were decidedly less than with the Tesla: Unplanned fuel stop vs flatbed.
2. My prior ICE had much more than 300-ish km winter range. And gas stations are much closer than 300 km - which is the distance to my closest supercharger.
3. Relative to the effort & ingenuity required to build the car, creating a quality range prediction algorithm is TRIVIAL. Heck, given the number of tech savvy enthusiasts who own these things, all they would need to do is open up the API and I bet they'd get several of them written for free.

The reality is that for a lot of folks, the current Tesla has only marginally practical range and limited usable fueling options. To make the vehicle as practical as possible, good quality range prediction is vital. Right now, it's simply not there.

- - - Updated - - -

+1 Exactly! We've never run out in our Tesla, and have only cut it close a few times, most recently we needed a L2 charge to get home with a buffer.

Rather than driving slowly we grabbed a snack and chilled out for 40 mins to make sure we had 20% estimate on trip planner, and then sped to use up the buffer and arrived home with 13%. Yes, we could have made it home with less than 5% had we skipped the L2 charge, but given that others have experienced shut off near that point in cold weather, there was no use risking it.

We've found the trip planner is more than satisfactory for our use. We always charge to a buffer of 20% more than the planner states, because we usually use 20% more energy than would be the case if we drove the speed limit perfectly (if you get my point). Besides, charging a bit more at the supercharger is free, and is almost always charging faster in rated km of range added per hour compared to highway driving speed, so charge longer and drive faster.

Please remember that not everybody lives in Toronto. You have the best case scenario for owning a Tesla in Canada. My closest supercharger 300 km away in Barrie. I can't trust that I'll make in Dec, Jan, Feb. And don't even talk about L2 chargers; for practical travel they're useless.

 

[Dufferin]

Wow, nice to see my comment generated a bit of discussion! For the record, I have 19 inch (tires, not the other thing!) and snow tires. Also, through the entire trip I felt in total control and I say that because of driving the car since May 2013. The longer you drive, the better the feel you have of how to get better range. I enjoyed the trip in my Tesla!

I also think this is totally different than running out of gas, but in a good way. I agree with what everyone has been saying about the amount of information the car is feeding me and the many different factors I can control. I would much rather have an electricity problem than a gas problem because I can do so much more to get further range.

The problem is not me, it is my wife. She refuses to drive the car unless there is zero thought that she can get somewhere without charging. Most of the posts I see here are from folks who know these cars inside and out. I don't think the majority of people will ever have the same knowledge as the users of this forum.

The purpose of my trip was to go to the Detroit auto show. Chevy says the new Bolt will have a 200 mile range and be in the dealers by fall of this year. I also checked out every electric car on the floor and all plugs would be the same type that Sun Country uses. I think that's good for Tesla owners but not so good for other cars to use Tesla superchargers (I don't know if that is a good or bad thing?). Tesla was not there because of the stand in Michigan on dealers....I think short sighted because there are a lot of people at the show that are not from Michigan....and I would have liked to see the Model X!

 

[Doug_G]

Just used the Trip Planner for my recent trip to New York. I was actually pretty impressed - it now works a heck of a lot better. It always gave reasonable routes, and if there was enough charge it would skip chargers appropriately. It gave me different routes depending on state of charge, and they were sensible.

The only minor thing is that it was always trying to route me through Kingston, which was out of my way, but I could drive straight from Ottawa to Syracuse. I think this is just conservatism - if it sees your arrival even slightly under 20% it diverts you for charging. I did the route with 18% remaining southbound (in bad weather), and 23% remaining northbound (and I actually sped up because I had lots).

Interesting thing... when going through the mountainous areas it was more conservative. My actual usage was well below predicted.