Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Trip Planning Question

Coyote18

Member
Aug 2, 2021
29
54
Minnesota
I'm set to (hopefully) receive my MYLR in September and have been playing around with the trip planner. We have two common 'long range' drives that we will be doing and I'm a little surprised at the trip planner output. I am curious on the real world experience from people here.

Trip 1: 240 miles on all interstates. There is a SuperCharger at the destination. With 320+ miles of range, I would have expected there to be no charge necessary along the way, but the trip planner has me stopping for a 30 minute charge about 1/3 into the drive. I'm surprised that is needed.

Trip 2: 270 miles, but through less populated areas with only 1 supercharger along the way with one additional supercharger that adds about 30 minutes to the trip. There is not a supercharger at the destination. The trip planner has me stopping at both superchargers along the way. This seems to make slightly more sense since I will need to get back to the Supercharger after being at my destination, but I'm still surprised at two stops.

I'm surprised at both of these results. Does the trip planner assume starting out at 100% (which I would for these trips)? Is there something else I'm missing? Realistically, I understand the real difference with ICE stops makes the difference not that great, but I'm still surprised at the number of stops. Appreciate the thoughts from all of you!
 

GtiMart

Active Member
Nov 13, 2019
1,367
1,208
Quebec City, Canada
I suggest using ABetterRoutePlanner to plan trips and see how things would go, even on prior trips you used to take in an ICE car. The Tesla trip planner isn't great.
You typically do not use a supercharger at a destination. You plug in a destination charger to charge slower on AC (level 2) overnight. If you don't have access, you can certainly use a supercharger, it's just less typical.

You charge as much as you need at the beginning of the trip. You can do 100% if it's required, depending on the trip.
It is faster to stop when your state of charge is low as the car charges faster that way. It's thus faster overall to do slightly more stops that are shorter. I mean, you don't need to charge to 80-90% at every stop, you just need enough to get to the next charger or to the destination. That is a change of mentality compared to ICE, which is why I suggest playing with ABRP enough to understand how things work.

Do NOT expect to make the EPA rating unless you drive very slowly. The EPA test is a mix of slow city driving and max 55mph highway speeds.

As you typically don't charge to 100%, and you typically don't want to reach 0%, you should think of something closer to 75% of the battery's capacity as the typical usable buffer. I would expect a 240 mile highway trip to have a charge stop somewhere in the middle, and the same with 270 miles. Or two shorter stops... depending on availability of superchargers on your route.
 

ZilWin

Member
May 29, 2021
193
135
North America, Earth
Even Tesla in car Nav and SC will only calculate what you need to get to your destination with your predetermine arrival SoC but if you cannot charge there you are stranded. If you need to get back to the SC from your destination you need to manually figure that in to your planning. In car Nav will tell you what you need for charge to do the R/T so you might have to start a new trip at the final charge stop prior to your 'destination' to make sure you have enough charge to get back.
Same as if there were no gas stations at your destination with your ICE car. You'd have to make sure you had enough extra gas to get to a gas station.
 

Coyote18

Member
Aug 2, 2021
29
54
Minnesota
I suggest using ABetterRoutePlanner to plan trips and see how things would go, even on prior trips you used to take in an ICE car. The Tesla trip planner isn't great.
You typically do not use a supercharger at a destination. You plug in a destination charger to charge slower on AC (level 2) overnight. If you don't have access, you can certainly use a supercharger, it's just less typical.

You charge as much as you need at the beginning of the trip. You can do 100% if it's required, depending on the trip.
It is faster to stop when your state of charge is low as the car charges faster that way. It's thus faster overall to do slightly more stops that are shorter. I mean, you don't need to charge to 80-90% at every stop, you just need enough to get to the next charger or to the destination. That is a change of mentality compared to ICE, which is why I suggest playing with ABRP enough to understand how things work.

Do NOT expect to make the EPA rating unless you drive very slowly. The EPA test is a mix of slow city driving and max 55mph highway speeds
As you typically don't charge to 100%, and you typically don't want to reach 0%, you should think of something closer to 75% of the battery's capacity as the typical usable buffer. I would expect a 240 mile highway trip to have a charge stop somewhere in the middle, and the same with 270 miles. Or two shorter stops... depending on availability of superchargers on your route.
Very helpful. ABRP looks so much more helpful, although I'd like to use the in-car NAV so my wife doesn't panic like she does now when I get under 1/8 fuel tank.

Completely understand the goal is to treat this the same as an ICE car, you would never strand yourself. I will have an at-home wall connector so do plan on charging to 100% for these long trips.

Appreciate the responses!
 
  • Like
Reactions: GeezerSquid

ATPMSD

Member
Mar 12, 2021
340
343
Atlanta, GA
Very helpful. ABRP looks so much more helpful, although I'd like to use the in-car NAV so my wife doesn't panic like she does now when I get under 1/8 fuel tank.

Use ABRP to plan the trip and set the SuperCharger(s) it suggests as destination(s), which is a good idea anyway to allow the car to precondition the battery for SuperCharing on arrival.
 

1QYKMY

Member
Jul 2, 2021
94
35
San Diego, California
I suggest using ABetterRoutePlanner to plan trips and see how things would go, even on prior trips you used to take in an ICE car. The Tesla trip planner isn't great.
You typically do not use a supercharger at a destination. You plug in a destination charger to charge slower on AC (level 2) overnight. If you don't have access, you can certainly use a supercharger, it's just less typical.

You charge as much as you need at the beginning of the trip. You can do 100% if it's required, depending on the trip.
It is faster to stop when your state of charge is low as the car charges faster that way. It's thus faster overall to do slightly more stops that are shorter. I mean, you don't need to charge to 80-90% at every stop, you just need enough to get to the next charger or to the destination. That is a change of mentality compared to ICE, which is why I suggest playing with ABRP enough to understand how things work.

Do NOT expect to make the EPA rating unless you drive very slowly. The EPA test is a mix of slow city driving and max 55mph highway speeds.

As you typically don't charge to 100%, and you typically don't want to reach 0%, you should think of something closer to 75% of the battery's capacity as the typical usable buffer. I would expect a 240 mile highway trip to have a charge stop somewhere in the middle, and the same with 270 miles. Or two shorter stops... depending on availability of superchargers on your route.
Is PlugShare not a better app than ABRP?
 

WADan

Member
Sep 28, 2020
314
263
Bellevue WA
I use ABRP to plan the route (to see what/how many superchargers it recommends), and use Tesla Nav to drive. When I get close to a ABRP recommended stop (which Tesla sometimes bypasses), I check the SOC to see how close the estimated SOC to what Tesla thinks and make a decision to stop or not.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,765
8,348
Boise, ID
Trip 1: 240 miles on all interstates. There is a SuperCharger at the destination. With 320+ miles of range, I would have expected there to be no charge necessary along the way, but the trip planner has me stopping for a 30 minute charge about 1/3 into the drive. I'm surprised that is needed.
First off, let's correct something:
With 320+ miles of range,
No. That is 320+ "RATED miles". That is a conversion of energy according to the EPA testing efficiency constant. You are only going to match that when going around 65 mph or so with NO cabin heating or cooling running. Driving normally on interstates, you're not going to match that 1:1. Wind resistance ramps up a lot at higher speeds, so on interstates, at 80 mph, and with being comfortable with some heat or A/C, that's rough. Granted, it would be possible to do 240 real miles if you need to, but you wouldn't like it. Also, you don't want to run it down to that last few %, which the "320" is including.

Completely understand the goal is to treat this the same as an ICE car
Umm, I see that's what you're trying to do. You seem to have this subconscious perspective that: "ANY STOP = BAD". Electric cars just don't have the 500 mile range that a lot of gas cars do, where you can just drive as long as your body can stand before stopping. I would encourage a bit of perspective shift to not think of taking a 20-ish minute break as a bad thing. 240 miles at 80 mph is 3 hours. It wouldn't hurt to take a break in the middle to do 1 hour and 2 hours. And don't just think of waiting, like you are planning to stand or sit and just wait for it to recharge. Always plan to plug in and walk away to do something. Go grab a coffee or iced tea or something and then come back. 20 minutes can disappear without too much notice if you walk and do something so it doesn't feel like just waiting.

Very helpful. ABRP looks so much more helpful, although I'd like to use the in-car NAV so my wife doesn't panic like she does now when I get under 1/8 fuel tank.
Yeah, there are two good ones, depending on what interface you like: www.abetterrouteplanner.com or www.evtripplanner.com. You work with those a bit to get some idea, but yeah, you still use the Nav in the car when you're going.

Is PlugShare not a better app than ABRP?
And it's good that someone mention Plugshare, but that's for a different purpose. Plugshare is about the most comprehensive and up-to-date map of all kinds of charging resources, but it's not really a route energy plotter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jpy1980 and GtiMart

Darmie

Super Member
Supporting Member
Jan 13, 2016
2,055
1,360
Clear Lake TX.
I'm set to (hopefully) receive my MYLR in September and have been playing around with the trip planner. We have two common 'long range' drives that we will be doing and I'm a little surprised at the trip planner output. I am curious on the real world experience from people here.

Trip 1: 240 miles on all interstates. There is a SuperCharger at the destination. With 320+ miles of range, I would have expected there to be no charge necessary along the way, but the trip planner has me stopping for a 30 minute charge about 1/3 into the drive. I'm surprised that is needed.

Trip 2: 270 miles, but through less populated areas with only 1 supercharger along the way with one additional supercharger that adds about 30 minutes to the trip. There is not a supercharger at the destination. The trip planner has me stopping at both superchargers along the way. This seems to make slightly more sense since I will need to get back to the Supercharger after being at my destination, but I'm still surprised at two stops.

I'm surprised at both of these results. Does the trip planner assume starting out at 100% (which I would for these trips)? Is there something else I'm missing? Realistically, I understand the real difference with ICE stops makes the difference not that great, but I'm still surprised at the number of stops. Appreciate the thoughts from all of you!
I find the Model Y is a thirsty vehicle. It could be that I'm running the 20in with the comp 4S tires. On the highway you won't get rated range. i would factor in only 75 percent efficiency.

Your 240 mile trip will require 300 range miles on the highway. Maybe less. Then I would factor in a 25mile buffer for any detours and such.

Your 270 mile trip will require 338 range miles for highway driving. Again, I would factor in a buffer for any detours. Keep in mind these figures don't account for any elevation changes nor any weather related road conditions.

You can always slow down and enjoy your trip but at highway speeds you will use more power. On a MYLR I believe the watt per mile is around 245. If you are seeing anything over that, then you are using more power than rated range.
Hope this helps. YMMV
 

Coyote18

Member
Aug 2, 2021
29
54
Minnesota
First off, let's correct something:

No. That is 320+ "RATED miles". That is a conversion of energy according to the EPA testing efficiency constant. You are only going to match that when going around 65 mph or so with NO cabin heating or cooling running. Driving normally on interstates, you're not going to match that 1:1. Wind resistance ramps up a lot at higher speeds, so on interstates, at 80 mph, and with being comfortable with some heat or A/C, that's rough. Granted, it would be possible to do 240 real miles if you need to, but you wouldn't like it. Also, you don't want to run it down to that last few %, which the "320" is including.


Umm, I see that's what you're trying to do. You seem to have this subconscious perspective that: "ANY STOP = BAD". Electric cars just don't have the 500 mile range that a lot of gas cars do, where you can just drive as long as your body can stand before stopping. I would encourage a bit of perspective shift to not think of taking a 20-ish minute break as a bad thing. 240 miles at 80 mph is 3 hours. It wouldn't hurt to take a break in the middle to do 1 hour and 2 hours. And don't just think of waiting, like you are planning to stand or sit and just wait for it to recharge. Always plan to plug in and walk away to do something. Go grab a coffee or iced tea or something and then come back. 20 minutes can disappear without too much notice if you walk and do something so it doesn't feel like just waiting.


Yeah, there are two good ones, depending on what interface you like: www.abetterrouteplanner.com or www.evtripplanner.com. You work with those a bit to get some idea, but yeah, you still use the Nav in the car when you're going.


And it's good that someone mention Plugshare, but that's for a different purpose. Plugshare is about the most comprehensive and up-to-date map of all kinds of charging resources, but it's not really a route energy plotter.
All fair points, although, until Tesla stops using the word range, I'm going to keep using that term. I understand you don't run something down to 0, but my point was to bridge the gap between 240 and 320 and understand the difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GeezerSquid

ATPMSD

Member
Mar 12, 2021
340
343
Atlanta, GA
All fair points, although, until Tesla stops using the word range, I'm going to keep using that term. I understand you don't run something down to 0, but my point was to bridge the gap between 240 and 320 and understand the difference.

Math time. First you will not drive your car in the same way the EPA did, so knock offf 25% of the range, 320 miles drops to 240! How did we get there? Take the battery size, multiple by 1,000 and divide by the EPA range. Assuming a 75 kWh battery this is 75 *1000 / 320 = 235 Wh/mi. Now notice what you actually get when you drive the car, if you see an average of say 310 Wh/mi your range is 242 miles.

Now factor in how much of the battery you will actually use. Using the 80-20% SOC rule and assuming that 240 mile figure your around town range is now just 144 miles. If you go to the full 100% charge and drive down to 20% SOC, that gives you a travel range of 192 miles.

I tell my friends when they shop EVs to take the EPA range and divide by 2 to approximate the real-world range to expect.
 

GtiMart

Active Member
Nov 13, 2019
1,367
1,208
Quebec City, Canada
Yeah. ICE cars give mpg, which can give you range when you know the tank size. Similar applies here: you don't drive to empty, and you don't drive like EPA test. It just happens that faster highway speeds don't reduce mpg too much whereas it's more drastic on an EV. Do the contrary, stay stuck in slow traffic with an ICE and you'll complain you don't do the epa too. It's just that no one really looks at those numbers for an ICE, they all go to the gas station when the tank is low, range is typically higher (except sports cars) and there are gas stations at every corner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lnsh and srlawren

NCC81701

Member
Feb 28, 2020
85
105
San Diego
Very helpful. ABRP looks so much more helpful, although I'd like to use the in-car NAV so my wife doesn't panic like she does now when I get under 1/8 fuel tank.

Completely understand the goal is to treat this the same as an ICE car, you would never strand yourself. I will have an at-home wall connector so do plan on charging to 100% for these long trips.

Appreciate the responses!
My preference is to use ABRP when planning trips before I leave. Once I'm on the road I use the Tesla Nav and punch in the charging stop on each leg as recommended by ABRP instead of putting in the final destination.

The Tesla Nav will continuously estimate what your battery % will be when you get to the next stop (takes into account your current draw and future elevation changes on the route). As long as Tesla Nav guesstimates that you have 5%+ battery when you get to your charging stop, you are good. For me, under steady conditions (no hard accel. for funnsies), Tesla Nav have been good to within 3% on how much juice it thinks i'll have when you reach my destination. On shorter legs w/out elevation gains it generally hits the prediction exactly.
 

srlawren

Active Member
Aug 3, 2020
1,082
726
Vancouver, BC, Canada, Eh?
Yeah, there are two good ones, depending on what interface you like: www.abetterrouteplanner.com or www.evtripplanner.com. You work with those a bit to get some idea, but yeah, you still use the Nav in the car when you're going.

@Rocky_H out of curiosity, am I missing something, or is evtripplanner missing the Model Y in the vehicle selector? From a quick look (as I wasn't familiar with it previously), it also looks quite a bit less friendly than ABRP--I guess that's what you meant by depending what interface you like.
 

Fourdoor

Member
May 31, 2016
960
823
United States
Even Tesla in car Nav and SC will only calculate what you need to get to your destination with your predetermine arrival SoC but if you cannot charge there you are stranded. If you need to get back to the SC from your destination you need to manually figure that in to your planning. In car Nav will tell you what you need for charge to do the R/T so you might have to start a new trip at the final charge stop prior to your 'destination' to make sure you have enough charge to get back.
Same as if there were no gas stations at your destination with your ICE car. You'd have to make sure you had enough extra gas to get to a gas station.

Predetermined arrival SOC? Is this user adjustable? Mine seems to want 20% SOC on arrival, and although I am not Kyle Conner I don't feel the need to have that much reserve :)

Keith
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,765
8,348
Boise, ID
@Rocky_H out of curiosity, am I missing something, or is evtripplanner missing the Model Y in the vehicle selector?
Oh, no you're not missing something. It looks like they haven't added Model Y in there yet. So--maybe not the best bet for you.

From a quick look (as I wasn't familiar with it previously), it also looks quite a bit less friendly than ABRP--I guess that's what you meant by depending what interface you like.
There is some individual preference there. EVtripplanner was made first, and I got used to using it for a few years before ABRP was created. I tried ABRP, and just hated the interface, with how complicated and hidden everything is. You have to keep opening and closing submenus to get to things to enter other details. EVtripplanner has all of the lines for all of the variables showing all the time, so you can just enter all the stuff like temperature and speed right there, without having to click on other menus to find them. That's just what I prefer for a bit of simplicity.

But EVtripplanner was a very simple home-built project by a guy who was a college student back then and hasn't had as much active development since then (such as Model Y not being entered in there yet). ABRP is much more upkept currently.
 

PagodaY

Member
Dec 23, 2019
226
131
Hudson Valley, NY
I use ABRP. I took it out for a couple of shorter trips to see how it relates to my real world driving and found it to be close. After adjusting the settings a couple of times, I'm now fully confident I can use the plan without "surprises". I would suggest this before taking extended trips.

ABRP can export out to Excel, which can then be formatted for printing. I give my co-pilot this print out and she handles the destination input on the MY.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top