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True Cost of Fuel & Traveling - Societal Impact

AceSkywalker

Member
May 27, 2017
200
91
Los Angeles California
Its a commonly held view among green advocates that the cost of fuel at the pump and the plane ticket do NOT reflect the true cost of environmental impact those have.

In car dependent cities this would be a certain disaster in my opinion. Those cities would have to reinvent themselves for masses of people priced out of personal vehicles using public transit. Public transit projects are slow to complete and often encounter cost overruns, which would require taxing the public more. Examples are the boondoggle that has been California’s attempt at high speed rail.

However,

Imported goods would be cost prohibitive and produce would be limited to stuff available in the regional area. We do not need bananas from South America or single use instant coffee packets from Southeast Asia.

Traveling would also be significantly impacted. Increasing fuel costs would lead people to stay home and airlines to scrap their older less fuel efficient jets. Maybe return to the regulation era of civil aviation where governments dictated routes, frequencies and aircraft used, with an added emphasis on efficiency and low environmental impact. Add flight shame that is increasingly a thing in Europe, where people who do air travel are seen as selfish. Do we need several dozen flights between Los Angeles and New York City every day?

Making these changes would be a double edged sword. On one hand, pricing people out non-essential travel and imported goods would make a significant decrease in fossil fuel emissions. On the other hand, advocates would quickly alienate a significant amount of the population.
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
7,432
9,441
United States
Imported goods would be cost prohibitive and produce would be limited to stuff available in the regional area. We do not need bananas from South America or single use instant coffee packets from Southeast Asia.

Traveling would also be significantly impacted. Increasing fuel costs would lead people to stay home and airlines to scrap their older less fuel efficient jets. Maybe return to the regulation era of civil aviation where governments dictated routes, frequencies and aircraft used, with an added emphasis on efficiency and low environmental impact. Add flight shame that is increasingly a thing in Europe, where people who do air travel are seen as selfish. Do we need several dozen flights between Los Angeles and New York City every day?

Making these changes would be a double edged sword. On one hand, pricing people out non-essential travel and imported goods would make a significant decrease in fossil fuel emissions. On the other hand, advocates would quickly alienate a significant amount of the population.

I'm not really sure what point you're attempting to make here....

1) Importing goods by cargo ship is not that carbon intensive and the ships are getting cleaner as they shift to LNG. So no... imported goods would NOT be cost prohibitive.

Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 4.33.50 PM.png


2) I've never understood the attraction of air travel for vacation and it's possibly the most 'first world' of first world problems. If someone thinks it's ok to fly 15,000 miles to see an exotic part of the world when I promise you there are plenty of far more local destinations just as incredible then they deserve some shame... Have an itch to fly to Greece? Go to Moab first. Already seen Moab? Go to the Grand Canyon. Been to the Grand Canyon? Which rim? Go to the other one... etc... etc... It's cultural. There's this idiotic notion that something is somehow better because it's farther away....

If you really... really... REALLY just need to see Paris... book passage on a cargo ship.
 

mblakele

beep! beep!
Mar 7, 2016
1,678
5,201
SF Bay Area
the cost of fuel at the pump and the plane ticket do NOT reflect the true cost of environmental impact those have.

On one hand, pricing people out non-essential travel and imported goods would make a significant decrease in fossil fuel emissions. On the other hand, advocates would quickly alienate a significant amount of the population.

The best approach I've heard of is to set a price on carbon, and return the proceeds as a dividend to consumers. Prices of carbon-intensive goods and services will go up, but that won't be regressive because consumers can choose to spend their carbon dividends on the same goods and services they usually buy. However consumers are likely to choose cheaper, less carbon-intensive products and services wherever possible. That should help decarbonize the economy.

Here's some reading:
 
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AceSkywalker

Member
May 27, 2017
200
91
Los Angeles California
@nwdiver Great point on the absurdity of leisure air travel. I don’t need to see Paris, London, Tokyo. My air travel is restricted to visiting family once every several years who live on a different continent.

As a young and dumb teenager, I wanted to be a pilot. Glad I didn’t follow through. I would feel incredibly guilty about the environment every time I spooled up those engines. Not to mention that the training aircraft I would spend almost 100% of my first 1500 hours getting my ratings would still be burning LEADED gasoline.
 

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