True Cost of Ownership

[ikjadoon]

Keep in mind that the fuel savings may not be all that substantial depending on where you live and what gas prices do.
Currently our S is running an average of 325Whr/mile, which works out to an equivalent cost of 39mpg where I live. Keeping in mind the size of the S thats still pretty good, but even if the 3 is significantly lower, its quite possible that it won't be significantly cheaper to fuel than a good hybrid ICE.

Course gas prices could also sky-rocket.

Wow, man! How much are you paying for gas and power? I see you live in New Jersey, but I didn't think it was that bad.

I assumed 325Whr/mi for a MS, 30MPG for a comparable full-sized sedan (a number chosen after a cursory look at average numbers), $2.10/gal for gas (about the average in the Houston area), and $0.07145/kWh for home electricity (my contract price if I spread the fixed portion of the delivery charge over 1000kWh). With those assumptions, I get about 88MPGe.

Tesla estimates an average of 333WHr/mile. At the national average of $0.12 / kWh, you pay 3 cents per mile (90D). In a 30MPG @ $2.10/gal situation, you're paying 7 cents per mile.

 

[SageBrush]

The Model S rear wheel drive costs approximately $580 per year for annual service if you buy the 4 year plan. Model X is nearly $690. I am going to venture out and guess Model 3 maintenance will run in the $400 per year range or just over $0.03 / mile if you drive 12,500 miles per year. Tires will likely run another $0.02/mile or so. That would put 5 year maintenance at around $3,125.

This is likely going to be cheaper than similar sized sedans (Edmunds lists an Audi A4 5 year maintenance as $5,906), but it is not going to be as cheap as some people hope.

I don't expect my costs for a Model 3 to be as low as my running costs for our Prius Vagon, and I DIY what I can, but your estimates are quite a bit higher than what I have gotten used to:
I spent $500 for 100,000 miles, all inclusive tyres + maintenance. The tyres are still in very good shape with 7 mm tread and I just spent about a $150 this week for an extensive maintenance good for another 50k miles besides motor oil and filters that run me about $50 a year.

This anecdote may not be very relevant for many people since it relies a lot on DIY but here I am.
Hint hint, Tesla

 

[internalaudit]

Besides the motor and drive train unit, which other components can't be DIY'ed or done by an independent shop, presupposing there will be non OEM after market parts?

Can Tesla render any of its cars dead via OTA?

 

[SageBrush]

Can Tesla render any of its cars dead via OTA?

You have been reading too many trump conspiracy theories.

 

[internalaudit]

^ Not really. Even the Samsung Note 7 was rendered useless by OTA.

I guess you don't have the answer and just responded in a round about (and quite useless) fashion


What makes you think that if the onboard computer diagnostics says something critical is malfunctioning and a threat to public safety, Telsa, in the interest of safety, won't allow the car to be driven until checks/repairs are made?

Normally (depending on the issue), Tesla would send its technician to the owner's address but once the warranty is over, not sure how much those service calls will be.

 

[SageBrush]

^ Not really. Even the Samsung Note 7 was rendered useless by OTA.

Any software can be buggy enough to cause problems. That is a whole different story than asking if Tesla has a software bullet for any owner it does not like.

 

[internalaudit]

I did not even state that Tesla is free to shut down a car whose owner it dislikes.

I am just explaining how owners can be held by the b@lls with advancement in car technology. Maybe consumer laws will prevent this from happening.

 

[jaguar36]

Yes, Tesla can certainly remote in and have full root access to the car and could do anything they wish, including brick it. (assuming you are in an area with cell coverage at least) The legal and customer relations issues that would occur if they did it against an owners wishes though means its highly unlikely that they will.

 

[slipnslider]

I don't understand your viewpoint. Maybe on a TCO, but as was stated earlier, "I do my own maintenance" ... and I am not worth paying myself minimum wage. I have spent many many hours under the car or under the hood. Do you price dumping your oil?

I go on road trips. I have owned Crayolas and Prii. The Tesla is better. FAR better. Power, traction, steering in emergencies or around wet mountain roads (where I live), and room and looks. Some things are not measureable with TCO,

As to Tesla maintenance, my second gen car has been to the service center once, free, for a 15 minute fix of a squeak in the pano, in 40,000 miles. I had 82,000 miles on my first gen Tesla, with only a few teething problems at no cost. Tires aside, zero maintenance.

Supercharging network is expanding. I have only once waited at a SC, for less than 5 min, in 4+ years. Usually there are no cars whatever in the SC, over the western half of the US.

I wasn't referring to driving pleasure or performance. Simply to usefulness. If you take a lot of long trips, the corolla is far more useful than a tesla simply due to the range limits, trip planning required, and the already crowded and mechanically failing supercharger network.

 

[RayW]

Mostly depends on how much you drive. I drive 24K/year and the TCO of a $72K MS 60 is comparable to a $45K BMW 3-series over 8-years based upon the cost of gas & electricity where I live, and factoring in State/Fed tax breaks, charger install, maintenance, and insurance .... that was the deciding factor for one diehard BMW driver switching to Tesla. There are intangible benefits in that you get an HOV sticker and you'll never find your car on empty at 6am on the way to work.

 

[RayW]

I wasn't referring to driving pleasure or performance. Simply to usefulness. If you take a lot of long trips, the corolla is far more useful than a tesla simply due to the range limits, trip planning required, and the already crowded and mechanically failing supercharger network.

I look at it this way -- I spent about 10min/wk x 52 wks/yr = 8.7hrs/yr at gas stations to fill my ICE car to commute to/from work and I now spend 0hrs/yr to fuel my Tesla to commute. So, I'm OK spending a few hours at Super Chargers during long road trips... in fact, the Super Chargers tend to be at decent locations so we've never felt inconvenienced as we enjoyed our shaved ice or shopped.

I'm going to stop now, just realized I'm sounding like I've been brainwashed by Elon....

 

[MiamiNole]

If Tesla can save us money on insurance, it could be cheaper than a $25K ICE.

Only if it's 15% or more.

 

[gregd]

If Tesla can save us money on insurance, it could be cheaper than a $25K ICE.

Note, however, that insurers give discounts for covering multiple items, including your house. Since I doubt Tesla would issue homeowners insurance, your car may indeed go down, but the house will probably go up.

 

[diesel]

This simply isn't true, and is often overstated. I've owned several ICE vehicles in this price range, that I drove to 150K miles with only brakes, tires, and oil changes as necessary maintenance. I performed my own maintenance which kept my costs low. Tesla isn't a big fan of people working on their own vehicles, hence the lack of parts, information, and tools. Don't forget to include taxes, insurance, and registration fees as part of TCO, as well as installation of your home charging infrastructure.

Whilst self-maintenance will leave you with more money in your pocket that is not something that a vast majority of people will do. Even if you do it yourself, time is not free. Not to mention that warranties require a professional to carry out a service. So if you're running numbers for general comparison safe to leave in servicing costs.

 

[SageBrush]

Not to mention that warranties require a professional to carry out a service.

That would be distinctly unusual in the US with regards to car maintenance. I won't say never to be safe, but not with any car I have ever owned.

 

[182RG]

Not to mention that warranties require a professional to carry out a service.

Not in the US. The Magnuson-Moss Act allows for self maintenance. It's not about time for me, as I enjoy maintaining my own vehicles.

 

[0ptions]

I suspect these cars have too much tech to ever become classics. It's hard enough to get a 5 year old phone or laptop to function let alone a 50 year old car that runs on 50 year old computer programs. These things are more likely to be gigantic paperweights than classic cars. The level of expertise required to repair every little fancy tesla gizmo that breaks is going to make that inevitable. I doubt telsa will be interested in servicing them after 8-10 years either, just like apple with their hardware. They want you to throw it away and buy a new one. There is no financial incentive to make high tech gadgets last a long time.

You've never turned on an old IBM have you? I have, no issues and that technology is from the 80's.

 

[Lysol]

My true cost of ownership will suck slightly... lol... I have to pay personal property taxes annually on the value of my vehicles....

Here's my rough estimate for my Model 3:

For a $55,000 car in Loudoun County it would cost:
$55,000 * .042 = $2310
Relief calculation:
$20,000 * .042 = $840
$840 * .605 = $508.2
Total with relief:
$2310 - $508.2 = $1,801.80

Now to calculate same car value in Leesburg, VA:
$55,000 * .01 = $550
Relief calculation:
$20,000 * .01 = $200
$200 * .38 = $104
Total with relief:
$550 - $104 = $446

Now to add both taxes...
Loudoun County + Leesburg:
$1,801.80 + $446 = $2,247.80

$2,247.80 per year (slightly going down each year as the car devalues)
...or technically $187.32/month...

 

[jsmay311]

A huge factor in TCO will be if the buyer gets the full $7500 tax credit, or a partial credit, or no credit. And to a lesser extent any state incentives.

Tesla estimates an average of 333WHr/mile. At the national average of $0.12 / kWh, you pay 3 cents per mile (90D). In a 30MPG @ $2.10/gal situation, you're paying 7 cents per mile.

I know not everyone's a math wiz, but (0.333 x 12) does not equal 3. (HINT: it's 4.) (0.333 kWh/mi x $0.12/kWh = 4 cents per mile)

Main point:
With today's low gasoline prices, if you pay average or higher-than-average electricity prices, there's not a big difference in fuel cost between an EV and an efficient ICE vehicle.

For example, at $2/gallon and $0.12/kWh, a 50 mpg Gen 3 Prius has exact the same fuel costs as a 333 Wh/mi EV.
And at $0.15kWh, a Model S's fuel costs are comparable to a whole slew of 40mpg mid-size hybrid sedans.
(I know the Tesla is bigger and better. Just sayin'.)

 

[SageBrush]

For example, at $2/gallon and $0.12/kWh, a 50 mpg Gen 3 Prius has exact the same fuel costs as a 333 Wh/mi EV.
And at $0.15kWh, a Model S's fuel costs are comparable to a whole slew of 40mpg mid-size hybrid sedans.
(I know the Tesla is bigger and better. Just sayin'.)

Right you are, but there is still a lot of range in fuel prices that is difficult to generalize. I currently own a Prius Vagon and a LEAF. We drive both cars gently and end up about 50 mpg in the ICE and 5.2 miles/kWh in the EV.

I pay about 4 cents a mile for the ICE, but from next week after my PV is up and running I'll pay about 0.5 cents a mile for the EV. Home PV is not available to everybody, but it can be an option for enough people that it should not be ignored in the discussion.

And frankly ? EV ownership is half-baked. EV+PV is the whole pie.