True mileage of a 100kw MX in winter switzerland

[rymannphilippe]

I drive now 2 years my MX.

Today I driven 130km from 100% to 61%.
Ergo this is a about 330km range from the 100%.

Wintertires and 95% highway with 125km/h speed. Temp around 5 degrees over zero.

I know this it the truth and can live with it.

But what I hate is the bullshiting range from the new cars and the cars magazines.
Like in the old days the same with the gasoline consumption. Advertising 5 liters self driven 10 liters.
This is so absolutely the same with ev.

Even tesla isn't better.
The 550 km for the MX sounds nice but it's a Lie.

What tesla needs is a switch, so I can fine tune the predicted range to the truth measured range.

What brings me the left kilometer range if this is 40%off???

So for me I know I can load to 90% can drive to my girl and back (130+130km) and come home with ~10%.
The screen starts with about 420km range and is just nothing worth it.

AND Tesla knows the truth.
Because the predicted % is right.

So please Tesla give me a slider so I can adjust the truth range of my battery.

 

[Peteski]

The problem is not with Tesla or any of the other manufacturers, it's with the authorities who specify these unrealistic driving cycles that give rise to the inflated range figures. NEDC benchmarks in particular are a poor indicator of real world range, the new WLTP standard is better but not used by Tesla yet. The EPA standard used in the US is more realistic too.

What I wish Tesla would do is allow you to display the accurate predicted range on the dash display instead of the largely meaningless Wh/mile consumption. It's all very well knowing that you are currently consuming an average of 450 Wh/mile, but what you really want to know is how much range you have remaining. I know this information is available on the Energy page, but it would be nice to see it on the dash at all times too. Such a trivial software update too - basically just replace the Wh/mile figure already displayed under the power meter with predicted range as already calculated and displayed on the energy page. Or just display both figures as there is plenty of room on the display.

 

[ecarfan]

I know this information is available on the Energy page, but it would be nice to see it on the dash at all times too.

As you note, that information is in the Energy graph display. Leave it up on the center display if that is the information you want to see.

Keep in mind that the Model 3 does not have a display in front of the driver. In my Model 3, if I want to see the Energy graph I display it. Problem solved. But I don’t need it displayed all the time, just occasionally.

I also have a Model X. I find that I prefer the Model 3 display and interface. I don’t need another screen directly in front of me.

 

[Peteski]

As you note, that information is in the Energy graph display. Leave it up on the center display if that is the information you want to see.

No, I don't want the entire energy graph taking up at least a third of my centre display just so I can see the single useful piece of information it displays. I just want the predicted range figure shown alongside or instead of the Wh/mile figure under the dash power meter. The dash display format is perfect as it is, but unfortunately it only displays the least useful number taken from the energy graph. I also have no idea why the power meter displays the consumption graph itself on the dash, as it's totally pointless.

 

[gde_eu]

I think you have to live with that. I'm in the same boat but with S85 and X90, same country and same condition. I can drive about 350 km with the S and about 300 km with the X in winter, mainly highway and winter tire. But today, nice weather, I was able to drive 390 km with the S.

My point is that the real mileage varies deeply depending on conditions (condition partly taken into account into the energy graph). I have 4 years experience and I have learn to adapt and I'm happy to have a fixed value to start with. I know that the estimate is computed with 205 Wh/km for the S and 210 Wh/km for the X. When I drive, I can see the 50km average value to extrapolate if I'm over or under the expected range. Today for exemple I was below (200 wh/km). In summer I can even go below 180 wh/km.

I have also driven a lot in Norway where speed limit is barely over 80 km/h and I was able to drive nearly 400 km with the X (summer condition).

So I can't see how Tesla can show an accurate number for anyone in any conditions. I think the actual solution is quite good: Show a fixed value as reference and show the best (and often accurate) estimation for the current trip in the energy graph.

 

[Peteski]

So I can't see how Tesla can show an accurate number for anyone in any conditions. I think the actual solution is quite good: Show a fixed value as reference and show the best (and often accurate) estimation for the current trip in the energy graph.

Why bother at all with the fixed reference value? Like many other people I long since switched over to the percentage option, which is a more intuitive fixed reference value. The far more accurate and meaningful predicted range value you get from the energy graph just needs popping up on the dash display. It's such an obvious solution I'm surprised it's never been done yet.

 

[gde_eu]

percent is percent. You don't know if you consume more or less than expected.

Let's say I have to drive 300 km and I have 350 km to start with. I know (with the S), that if I don't go over 239 wh/km (average) I'll be fine (350*205/300). (you can use the 50 km average or consumption since start in the pref menu for a better value)

With percent, you know where you are at a time t but you have no idea if you can reach destination or not.

That said, I'm a math guy, so I'm probably too crazy

But ok, you suggest to put the value computed by the energy graph on the dash. Why not, but it work only if you set a destination in the navigation otherwise the computer cannot do an estimate. And in this case, the estimate remaining percent is already showed in the navigation (always visible). It even give the percent for the return (if same route). So no good reason to put it twice.

 

[Tastee]

I have a x75 here in Switzerland as well. Agree with the winter range observations and emotions that come with it. I’m not sure what will happen in a few years when our batteries degrade and even more range is lost. The good news is that there are more and more supercharger coming but the careful planning for longer trips and the restrictions the range poses in winter is indeed troubling. It makes me wonder about the longevity of current ms and mx compared to ICE and the lifecycle assessment.

 

[gangzoom]

It makes me wonder about the longevity of current ms and mx compared to ICE and the lifecycle assessment.

20K now in our 75D X (previously 6K in a 60D X and 4.5K in a 90D X), I estimate degredation at 1.5%. Temp today in the UK was 12 degrees, 70 miles over multiple trip saw consumption of sub 330Wh/mile - so 210 mile+ range.

This is the fourth winter I've had an EV, since 1st of Jan our 75D X has done 2300 miles with multiple long distance runs in the UK. It hasn't been the coldest winter, -5 c been the worst, but some of the trips were done against 40mph head winds and torrential rain, despite that the lowest SOC I have seen is still over 10%.

I have absolute no worries about longterm usability of our 75D X, infant its probably the first car I have ever owned where I would consider keeping it forever in the family!! My wife hybrid Lexus is now relegated to occasional uses, and only covering 6K per year versus over 15K a year on the X.

 

[DCGOO]

Yes, but how about a review of the Mother Goose Club?

 

[Peteski]

But ok, you suggest to put the value computed by the energy graph on the dash. Why not, but it work only if you set a destination in the navigation otherwise the computer cannot do an estimate. And in this case, the estimate remaining percent is already showed in the navigation (always visible). It even give the percent for the return (if same route). So no good reason to put it twice.

You don't have to set anything in the navigation. The energy graph always displays an " average remaining range" value based on the last 5,15 or 30 mile consumption history, along with the average consumption figure for the same period. This consumption figure is actually already displayed on the dash display under the power meter, but crucially not the associated range value - which for me is a far more useful figure.

Battery percentage is just that. I know that 100% battery is roughly around 180 miles range for me, so I can work off that reference much better than some unrealistic rated 100% range figure like 237 miles or whatever. For example if I see 50% battery charge, I instantly think 90 miles range as a rough estimate. But I'm not quite so quick at relating a 237 mile indicated max range with a realistic 180 miles. That's just hard work and confusing! If I see a an indicated range of 118 miles, I then have to divide that figure by 237/180 to get a realistic range value of 90 miles!

 

[DriverOne]

The cabin heater uses a lot of extra power. You can get a lot of range back by turning that off and using the seat heaters... not ideal but EVs don't generate waste heat from their engine. The heater uses around 4-6kW, which is likely 20-25% of your overall consumption.

 

[gangzoom]

Yes, but how about a review of the Mother Goose Club?

This is what my recent playlists look like, if I had to pick it would be silence.....but my daughter doesn't really eally care what I want when shes in the car .

 

[alkfung]

yep can't blame all on Tesla as the EPA standards are that, standards established by someone or someBODY. Just take note that the numbers are practically based on average temperate climate on a flat road driving at 55mph (i believe that is the case) is pretty much what it is based on. Cold temperatures have a negative impact on batteries and I use the general rule of 50% when travelling through the Sierras during the winter. You can say the same with ICE vehicles when they are higher up in elevation due to the lower amount of oxygen but in cold (and same elevation) probably not so much impacted due to the heat and denser air/oxygen levels. Just be aware of the climate you drive in and what negative impacts it has on your vehicle type is the most important.

 

[ewoodrick]

I drive now 2 years my MX.

Today I driven 130km from 100% to 61%.
Ergo this is a about 330km range from the 100%.

Wintertires and 95% highway with 125km/h speed. Temp around 5 degrees over zero.

I know this it the truth and can live with it.

But what I hate is the bullshiting range from the new cars and the cars magazines.
Like in the old days the same with the gasoline consumption. Advertising 5 liters self driven 10 liters.
This is so absolutely the same with ev.

Even tesla isn't better.
The 550 km for the MX sounds nice but it's a Lie.

What tesla needs is a switch, so I can fine tune the predicted range to the truth measured range.

What brings me the left kilometer range if this is 40%off???

So for me I know I can load to 90% can drive to my girl and back (130+130km) and come home with ~10%.
The screen starts with about 420km range and is just nothing worth it.

AND Tesla knows the truth.
Because the predicted % is right.

So please Tesla give me a slider so I can adjust the truth range of my battery.

You can indeed hit the standard range if you want, slow down to less the 100km/h and you'll see your range increase. In warmer temperatures, the numbers will allow you to go faster at the same range.

There is a switch. Change the km left to %. Then always use the Energy graph at 30min to see what your real range anticipated is.

 

[mknox]

I am in my 7th winter with Teslas. Model S 85 for the first 6 and now a Model X 100D. Here are my observations:

On short trips, like a short commute, running errands on the weekends and such I may see HALF of my summer range (i.e. 100% higher consumption) in sub-freezing temperatures, but it doesn't matter because I have a big battery and am not driving far. I arrive home, plug in and don't worry about it.

But on very long trips, it is different. I drove from Chicago to Toronto in temps ranging from -30C to -15C the whole way 2 years ago and only was about 25% higher consumption than summer. When it is near 0C, I do that trip about 10% higher than summer.

I don't use Range Mode and I don't turn the heat down.

I believe that the very high initial consumption soon smooths out and over a long trip this extended cruising at "good" efficiency averages out the initial "bad". There is a lot of thermal inertia once the battery and cabin materials all get up to temperature. The longer the trip, the lower the overall hit to your efficiency will be.

So when I hear all these different numbers people through out about their winter consumption, I just think yep, it's between 10 and 100% higher depending on the trip length and, to a certain degree, terrain and driving style.

 

[Peteski]

This is what my recent playlists look like, if I had to pick it would be silence.....but my daughter doesn't really eally care what I want when shes in the car .

Brings back fond memories! The good news (or possibly bad news!) is that within a few short years (our daughters are 9 and 6) they go from this to the latest uncensored top 40 charts

 

[_jmk]

I guess you people have just not learned how to use an EV yet during the winter. I was practicing for couple of years with 10/12 battery bar leaf, it made wonders

I get regularly 300km out of the x75 even during the Finnish winter, last weeked I could have broken the epa range (385km) when it was +4c and i still have studded tires on.

Preheat a lot. Like a lot. Inflate tires to 3.5bar. Don’t stop unless you plan to charge and when the range does not matter anyway. Use the trip menu and monitor it while driving, if it looks that you will not make it, slow down. Use range mode.

Cabin heat does not really mean anything in my case, that draws constant 2kW and that is ok. Battery heating can use up to 20kWh while driving, so preheat... a lot.

 

[Peteski]

Inflate tires to 3.5bar.

I wouldn't do that part as I much prefer grip, comfort and even tread wear to ultimate economy!

 

[gangzoom]

I guess you people have just not learned how to use an EV yet during the winter. I was practicing for couple of years with 10/12 battery bar leaf, it made wonders

Snowflake generation.....Unless you have tried to do a intercity trip in something like a 24kWh Leaf in winter, against wind and with wet roads you haven't experienced true range anxiety .