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Truly Buggy Software and Hardware

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by haasnoot, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. haasnoot

    haasnoot Member

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    Arizona
    Here are the issues I have had with a 15-month-old Model S.
    • Faced a medical emergency. Got into my car. The screen was black. The dashboard partial. Putting foot on the brake did not start the car. Message on the dashboard says "warming up" and I live in Arizona where it was 75°. Two finger reset does not work. Call California. Go through a full power off and power back on. Partial functionality restored. 20 minutes later my car can be used for the medical emergency. Support said it was probably a once-in-a-lifetime event.
    • About three weeks later I experience the same event. This time the two finger reset gradually restored functionality. It was not a once-in-a-lifetime event. Support has no idea. They send a firmware update.
    • Three weeks ago I'm driving at 80 miles an hour when the screen goes black and reboots. You lose significant functionality. Support has no idea what happened. They send another firmware update.
    • I bring my car in for annual service. They attempt to replace the screen and computer. Firmware and the screen are incompatible and they have my car for three days before finding a resolution.
    • While my car was in for annual service I have a HW1 model S loaner. I walk out to the car. The door handles pop out. I get in. The screen and dashboard are black. Touching the brake pedal does nothing. Two finger reset eventually brings back most functionality.
    Boy, am I glad I am only leasing this car. In all other aspects it is a tremendous car BUT these are serious ongoing issues that have been happening about every 30 days. Someone needs to get this firmware/hardware under control and functioning reliably.
     
    • Informative x 2
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  2. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    When you say in the last bullet point that the reboot “eventually brings back most functionality”, what functionality were you missing after the reboot?

    I had to reboot my Model S about every month or so. I figure it’s a computer, no big deal that it has to reboot once in a while. I guess we have different tolerance for these things.
     
  3. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    I believe the message in the screen said

    “systems are powering up”
    “Please press the brake when this message clears”.

    Mine did the same once.

    How did you power off and back on if the big middle screen didn’t work?
     
  4. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    It is way too glitch prone.

    There is no once in a lifetime event. There are fairly consistent glitches, and some extremely sporadic glitches.

    The most common glitch is with the Center screen. Where either it won't turn on, won't respond, or the cell connection won't reconnect. In most if not all cases doing the two finger reset for the center console will fix it. In some cases like while driving it rebooted itself.

    What is less common is any issue with the IC. I've only had this happen once, and doing the OTHER two finger reset resolved it.

    I've had other issues where I had to get out of the car, lock it, unlock it, and get back in.

    The vast majority of glitches only happened on rare occasions that would maximize embarrassment to either myself or the car. :p

    It's like it knew someone was with me, or that I was really counting on it. It's never left me stranded though, and I've never taken more than 5 minutes to resolve whatever was going on. I accept it because of how complicated the system is, and how often it gets updated. With so many things getting updated it's understandable to me why it needs an occasional reset.

    Some owners are pretty religious about resetting both systems (IC, and Center Console) after each update.
     
    • Informative x 1
  5. trayloader

    trayloader Member

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    Wann a bet that the OP won´t be back?
    This behaviour seems to familiar.
     
  6. Ande

    Ande Member

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    Norway
    Buggy ? What exactly is a reason for you to think this is a big ?
    Sounds more like a periodic failure.
    I had what you may call a fancy BMW , with an annoying error that denied me to start it randomly for three months before BMW dealer found the defective parts. It maye me call it a piece of should* car, but I did not wrongly assumed a reason.
    Most Tesla s work reliably every day, so I'd say a software issue is not the cause.
     
  7. nexusone

    nexusone Member

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    I have a 4wk old MS. I have to reboot multiple times a day. I hate this car.
     
    • Funny x 2
  8. dweeks

    dweeks Member

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    Location:
    Flagstaff, AZ
    I'm an experienced owner on my third Model S (late 2017 100D), and love the car, like the two before it. I know what's normal, and what's not, and how to deal with little oddities.

    But I have to say that I have had MANY more MCU lockups and spontaneous reboots after getting firmware 2018.14.2 a88808e than I have ever had previously with any firmware version. I'd say I get spontaneous reboots three or four times per week, and a lockup every other day.

    I've not called Tesla about this, but I am ready for a more stable firmware.
     
  9. Lasttoy

    Lasttoy Active Member

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    113k miles, had it twice immediately called Fremont. They logged into car and fixed it instantly. Has not happened in year. Call fremont everytime, immediately. Never wait one second. They can get into error log instantly and see reason.
     
  10. pkodali

    pkodali Banned

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    If I were you, I might pursue lemon law
     
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  11. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Because the MCU has to reboot every few weeks? And no episodes reported after his MCU was replaced (second to last bullet point)?
     
  12. Jtrader

    Jtrader Member

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    KY
    In 2 1/2 years, I've had to reboot 3 or 4 times max. Works perfectly after reboot.
     
  13. pkodali

    pkodali Banned

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    If the car isnt starting properly and they've tried multiple times to fix it without succeeding, that indicates a pretty big problem IMO
     
  14. pkodali

    pkodali Banned

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    Didn't see the second to last bullet point. My bad
     
  15. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    The recent releases seem to be less stable. While our 2012 S P85 is running 14.2, our 2017 S 100D is still stuck on 10.4, and has several spontaneous reboots (either when entering the car, or while the car is moving).

    Prior to 10.4, the software had been relatively stable, and wasn't experiencing the reboots. Could be why Tesla hasn't deployed the new navigation software to more cars, the are still trying to work out the major bugs.

    Since introducing the Model S 6 years ago, Tesla periodically goes through periods when there are some stability issues in the released software. They use a different software release strategy than other manufacturers, frequently distributing releases, which means each individual release gets less testing - and sometimes a major problem is missed during internal testing or by their small hand-picked beta testers. And when that happens, Tesla goes through a start-stop-resume distribution process, pausing distribution of an update when a major problem is encountered, fixing the problem, and then starting the distribution again. Because of this, it can take weeks or months before the software is stable enough for a wide release.

    Musk has indicated plans to allow owners to request updates be distributed to their cars. That's a good start to providing more control over what software is distributed to the car - and when, but only a start. They should go further:
    • Provide the release notes either by e-mail or on the console BEFORE installing a new update
    • Provide more detailed release notes indicating not only the major features, but any minor changes that are included, along with a summary of the fixed bugs and the known bugs that are not yet addressed (something NVidia does with their graphics drivers)
    • Allow owners to indicate the types of releases they want installed - preference to get the latest releases quickly (with potential for less stability) or willingness to wait until the software has been proven more stable
    • Ability to roll back the software to the previous stable release, so that if a release gets installed with an unacceptable issue, the owner can get the car back to a reasonable stable condition. Rolling back to previous releases can be challenging to test; allowing rollback to a specific version is something that Tesla should be able to relatively easily test - and also have their beta testers test.
    • Open the beta test program, allowing any owner to opt in or opt out of participation in the beta testing. With the increasing number of configurations (S/3/X, RWD/Dual Motor, battery pack sizes, AP/EAP/FSD, premium upgrades, right/left steering, country, language, ...), increasing the number of beta testers should help Tesla find more of the obvious bugs before putting the software into release
    • Document the known bugs, so owners are aware of the issues - and if a problem isn't on the list, they know they should report it
    • Provide a better mechanism for reporting problems - and tracking resolution. The current system of sending an e-mail or using a voice command to report a problem provides no feedback on problem resolution
     
  16. Oldman

    Oldman Member

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    Ohio
    An otherwise great car is being encumbered with unnecessary computer problems just because they love the "high tech impression" of these screens and insist on using too much IT tech. I know I am in the minority but I would rather see less computer tech in Teslas. Don‘t forget, it is a car in the first place. You still have your iphones to play with...:D
     
    • Funny x 1
  17. haasnoot

    haasnoot Member

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    Understand....I have also had this message but this was warming up and confirmed by Tesla when they went into the logs....it would not go away and so the car would not run until I took the actions indicated
     
  18. haasnoot

    haasnoot Member

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    Well said! Agree. Openness is not their strength. I have had a personal conversation with the head of all service about this....no tangible results.
     
  19. scottm

    scottm Version 9 software sufferer

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    #19 scottm, May 2, 2018
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
    Over the whole ownership experience of having the car, now about 126,000 km I've had to do a 2-button salute reboot about as often as I would have needed to change the oil filter, if this were an ICE car.

    I can tell you which thing I prefer doing!

    Of late, the car seems to be "changing its own oil filter" about once a week. ..on V 2018.6.1 641efac without new maps or anything.. but hey!! Now it's a self-lubricating car and I don't even have to change the virtual oil filters.

    Simply amazing !


    p.s. when the console goes for a T logo holiday, you lose HVAC and radio/audio, and everything else that needs to display on the console. But everything remains "set" the way it was and comes back that way. Car perfectly driveable and signals work fine on the outside - just can't hear them.
     
  20. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    All software is buggy, especially systems running multiple applications in a real-time environment and running on many different configurations (hardware, location, languages, ...).

    While there are well understood practices Tesla could use to improve the quality of software coming out of their development teams, the presence of bugs in released software is also a failure of Tesla's testing strategy.

    Evidently their internal testing periodically misses obvious bugs and design flaws - compounded by using a small hand-picked set of beta testers who also appear to miss bugs & design flaws during their testing.

    Or, worse, the issues are detected and Tesla's management decides to push out the release any way to maintain their aggressive release schedule.

    As an owner of multiple Tesla cars (waiting for a new X!), we want Tesla to continue to be aggressive in rolling out new features and improving AP.

    And, if Tesla implemented some basic improvements to their development and testing methodology, it should be possible to continue pushing new releases quickly AND reduce the number of issues seen in those releases.

    Overall, Tesla has been given a "pass" by S & X customers over the almost 6 years since the first Model S was sold. They'll likely face increasing pressure to address software quality when they start facing credible competition for long range EVs (which should happen in the next 2 years, when manufacturers are selling 300+ mile range EVs coupled with a long distance charging network).

    Since it takes time to implement process improvements - and start showing results - hopefully they won't wait much longer to take action on this long-standing challenge.
     

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