Trump cutting EPA emission testing budget, delay Model 3?

[iwannam3]

Trump wants to gut the EPA certification budget for emissions and mileage 99%. The Tesla 100D kwh batteries release was delayed waiting for the EPA mileage rating. Is this going to affect the Model 3 approval and release?

Trump Thinks EPA Emission Testing Is Pointless, Looks To Slash Budget By 99%

 

[Garlan Garner]

Good luck with this conversation. I opened this up in another thread and got blasted.

There are a tremendous number of Trump supporters here.

 

[igotzzoom]

I don't think Tesla will be specifically singled out for exclusion or delay. If anything, everyone will be delayed, or the EPA will be so gutted, that they'll just be forced to essentially rubber-stamp the OEs' claims.

 

[AlexG]

Any delay and controversy that it causes that are outside of Tesla's control will only increase Tesla's popularity and demand.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't think Tesla will be specifically singled out for exclusion or delay. If anything, everyone will be delayed, or the EPA will be so gutted, that they'll just be forced to essentially rubber-stamp the OEs' claims.

I don't know if they will rubber stamp, but I agree it'll affect everyone, not just Tesla.

 

[gregincal]

Presumably Trump's whole point is to speed up production by eliminating regulations. If he feels testing is unnecessary I don't see why the administration would allow it to delay releases of cars. Presumably they would just eliminate requirements (note that I'm not saying whether I think this is a good idea).

However, for the Model 3 that is all probably moot, since the wrangling over any budget proposals is likely to extend past when the Model 3 is released anyway.

 

[hpartsch]

I don't think Tesla will be specifically singled out for exclusion or delay. If anything, everyone will be delayed, or the EPA will be so gutted, that they'll just be forced to essentially rubber-stamp the OEs' claims.

I previously read that they only actually test 1-2% of the cars. Obviously their testing isn't that great either since they weren't the one's catching vw. Seems to me like a big waste of money to fund them, as they are currently essentially rubber stamping. CA and other state emission regulations aren't going anywhere -- let them pay for it once and be done. The automakers that come out with less efficient cars will be losers in the long run against EVs.

 

[iwannam3]

The automakers that come out with less efficient cars will be losers in the long run against EVs.

If they lie about the numbers like VW, Mazda, Ford, etc etc there is no one to catch them. Trump ended funding for the independent guy that caught VW.

Also Changes to regulations requires staff time and actual work! You just don't cut funding. Changes have to be written up and posted in the Federal Register and take public comments. Gutting staff will slow that process to a halt.

 

[McRat]

The EPA Testing Program is worth every penny.
Didn't they catch VW cheating after only a decade or so? No, wait, that was a college that caught them. The EPA was testing the emissions from some cannabis to verify it is illegal grade.

Seriously, we have many government offices that are not accountable to produce anything but paychecks and bonuses. Why should the EPA Emissions Dyno Team be singled out?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I previously read that they only actually test 1-2% of the cars. Obviously their testing isn't that great either since they weren't the one's catching vw. Seems to me like a big waste of money to fund them, as they are currently essentially rubber stamping. CA and other state emission regulations aren't going anywhere -- let them pay for it once and be done. The automakers that come out with less efficient cars will be losers in the long run against EVs.

EPA testing was what caught Hyundai and Ford. I wouldn't say it's useless. VW was a special case where they passed the test, but real world was different (EPA I believe is working on addressing this). Actual percentage is more like 15%, not 1-2%.

EPA Wants Car Companies To Test Gas Mileage In Real World

 

[McRat]

EPA testing was what caught Hyundai and Ford. I wouldn't say it's useless. VW was a special case where they passed the test, but real world was different (EPA I believe is working on addressing this). Actual percentage is more like 15%, not 1-2%.

EPA Wants Car Companies To Test Gas Mileage In Real World

Or they just conduct witchhunts after consumer groups or individual consumers raise a stink, whether justified or not.

We Put Those 40 Mpg Claims to the Test

 

[stopcrazypp]

Or they just conduct witchhunts after consumer groups or individual consumers raise a stink, whether justified or not.

We Put Those 40 Mpg Claims to the Test

That's talking about something else. What I am talking about is the automakers caught with the EPA doing an independent test using the EPA test cycle vs just accepting automaker reported test results. Hyundai and Ford were caught with inconsistent test results.

 

[McRat]

That's talking about something else. What I am talking about is the automakers caught with the EPA doing an independent test using the EPA test cycle vs just accepting automaker reported test results. Hyundai and Ford were caught with inconsistent test results.

I can't find anything indicating that EPA Testing Dept had anything to do with the Hyundai or Ford fines.

They are sort of like CARB. They take credit for anything done whether they are involved or not. When it's a blame thing, they are never responsible.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I can't find anything indicating that EPA Testing Dept had anything to do with the Hyundai or Ford fines.

They are sort of like CARB. They take credit for anything done whether they are involved or not. When it's a blame thing, they are never responsible.

A quick google was able to find it:
"the violations were discovered in EPA vehicle testing."
Hyundai, Kia pay $100M fine over gas mileage claims

Here's a whole list, with other cases that weren't really reported on (to be fair to Ford they self reported and EPA testing was only used for verifying results).
Fuel Economy Label Updates | Violations and Recalls of Vehicles and Engines | US EPA

 

[Trips]

Elon "Donald, your regulations that don't apply to my car are holding me up from creating more jobs"
President Trump "Are these jobs in America"
Elon "It is the most American car that is made"
President Trump "Can I get credit for creating these jobs"
Elon "Yes, sign this EPA approval and you can have credit"

 

[azred]

Good luck with this conversation. I opened this up in another thread and got blasted.

There are a tremendous number of Trump supporters here.

Stop messing with him, or the Donald will bomb you.

 

[hpartsch]

EPA testing was what caught Hyundai and Ford. I wouldn't say it's useless. VW was a special case where they passed the test, but real world was different (EPA I believe is working on addressing this). Actual percentage is more like 15%, not 1-2%.

EPA Wants Car Companies To Test Gas Mileage In Real World

I believe that number has increased to 10-15% after the VW scandal -- the 1-2% wasn't great publicity for them in combination of their lack of competence with VW for years. I wonder how many models there are in the US? Most of them don't even change year over year. Even 10-15% seems like a piss poor job for that many employees, that much money, and that many working days.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I believe that number has increased to 10-15% after the VW scandal -- the 1-2% wasn't great publicity for them in combination of their lack of competence with VW for years. I wonder how many models there are in the US? Most of them don't even change year over year. Even 10-15% seems like a piss poor job for that many employees, that much money, and that many working days.

The article linked saying 15% was from 2014. The VW scandal was in end of 2015.

And the cut doesn't affect just the vehicle test program, but 50 different test programs.

 

[hpartsch]

You are correct, I believe the 1-2% number was actual road tested emission testing vs lab testing. The EPA in that article is basically saying that lab testing (the 10-15%) isn't cutting it and it needs to change. So the government "wants" the automakers to do more real world testing. Does not sound like a great plan in my mind to fix uncovered issues. I'd be willing to be the same group of people testing cars 10-25 years ago is still there doing the testing or is now in management. That also doesn't give me much faith in the personnel.

EPA's current website -- sounds to me like nothing major has changed since the older article. I don't have confidence in the government doing it right basically.
Fuel Economy Label Updates | Violations and Recalls of Vehicles and Engines | US EPA

 

[igotzzoom]

Elon "Donald, your regulations that don't apply to my car are holding me up from creating more jobs"
President Trump "Are these jobs in America"
Elon "It is the most American car that is made"
President Trump "Can I get credit for creating these jobs"
Elon "Yes, sign this EPA approval and you can have credit"

Almost sounds like an SNL skit.