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Trump's plan to reduce auto emissions standards & impact on Model 3?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by 206er, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. 206er

    206er Member

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    According to this article, he's set to announce a pullback on EPA emissions regulations at a meeting with auto execs in Michigan today.

    Does this have any impact on your decision to proceed with buying a Model 3, Y, or other electric vehicle? And - this is admittedly a jump - could it become simply impractical at some point during Trump's presidency for the average consumer to own/operate an electric vehicle?

    Not intending for this to be a political discussion, just curious to hear thoughts on what impact Trump's approach to environmental regulations/emissions standards might have on Model 3, Tesla, and general EV demand/cost versus ICE competitors.
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    I don't see how relaxing or delaying emissions standards on ICE vehicles have much bearing on purchasers of EVs. I don't want a car that pumps out exhaust. Allowing ICE cars to do more of that or burn more fuel is not a disincentive to getting an EV. Quite the oppose.
     
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  3. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    It will always be a political discussion.

    As soon as anybody says, "not intended to be political" then you name a politician, exactly how can it not be?

    In any case, watch actions, not words. Sort of like taking a prisoner, watch their hands, and don't believe everything out of their mouth, or what uniform they are wearing.

    As of today, automakers globally are still going to lobby for an adjustment in their favor when the adjustment hearing is held. This was never in any doubt for the last few years.

    Right now, for 99% of auto buyers, they do not want a battery EV yet. They have not driven one, and have many misconception about how they fit into your life, and why they are better technology. Full tank every morning, no warmup, low CG, instant response, no trips to gas stations.

    A certain faction of people believe the government should force people to do everything. Get rid of choices and free will. Abolish free speech and elections. That's not America. It will have to be renamed when they get their wish. Perhaps join the EU as a colony of Germany.
     
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  4. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    I'm not worried about it. Once the wife has a Tesla we won't use "gas" anyway :)
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Member

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    Government regulations have very little to do with why people buy an EV. I have a 6.2 Liter truck and also have an order for a Model 3. If the costs are within reason people who want cool stuff will buy cool stuff and people who don't want to directly burn fuel will choose an EV. Government changes that would have direct effect would be tax incentives. This brings us back to reasonable cost, if I could get an equivalent technologically advanced ICE car for the same cost or less, sorry Charlie, but I am not buying a Tesla, and, for now, tax incentives are barely keeping it within reason. The cool factor has me.
     
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  6. eSpiritIV

    eSpiritIV Member

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    The effect it will have, is less competition for EV's from long time ICE makers. They wont be persuaded to make money off of EV's and will stick to gas as long as they can, as they have infrastructure in place to produce those vehicles. This action just puts money in their pockets.
    One other effect is that "some" people wont be persuaded to buy EV's if ICE makers can make a competitively priced vehicle with the same features at Tesla. As of now there is not one at the same level, but they may get there soon.
     
  7. N5329K

    N5329K Member

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    Of course it's political.
    If politicians encourage Detroit not to change then they won't change. They don't want to change as it is. This just gives them permission to keep snoozing in the early twentieth century, dreaming of chrome and fins and tailpipes. And that means they will fail sooner, which is going to be tough on the people who work for them, or support their products. Look for Government Motors II coming to a dealership near you.
    As for eliminating standards, they'll have to sue to eliminate them in states where people prefer to breathe. Until the cases are settled, Detroit will continue doing what they are doing now: build compliance cars.
    States rights, baby.
    Robin
     
  8. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    That may become a repeat of the '70s when domestic manufacturers were fat and happy with their land yachts until Japanese and European imports, with their higher gas mileage, made a toehold on these shores and then became a permanent fixture once buyers saw that they also offered better quality and features at competitive prices. This time around, it may be the Chinese manufacturers who will corner the low-to-mid price EV market in this country if the major domestic manufacturers keep their heads in the sand and focus solely on short-term earnings. And then they'll cry foul about unfair foreign competition... again.
     
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  9. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #9 McRat, Mar 15, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    Toyota, the world's biggest automaker, makes Compliance Cars for the US market. The minimum possible performance and range to get the credits, they still refuse to produce an EV or a PHEV that can compete with 2010 technology levels.

    If you believe Toyota's lobbyists will be at Starbucks during the meetings, you would be mistaken. Toyota is struggling to sell their big SUVs and Pickups in the US market, and they happen to be the dirtiest ones made. Stronger restrictions will hurt Toyota's profits more than other automakers. The other automakers can perhaps hit the targets, but Toyota is too far behind in green technology or emission controls.

    States have few rights. California doesn't even have Senators in the US Congress anymore. They are now focused on other states and do absolutely nothing for their home state. 1/2 of California belongs to Washington DC appointees, not California citizens. Our Senators not only endorse that, they want more to go to the feds. Their biggest campaign donors are based in New York, so they need to help New York before considering California.

    EDIT - In total car sales, VW has passed Toyota recently, but you can be pretty sure VW isn't focused on a Green Future either.
     
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  10. 206er

    206er Member

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    Taking a prisoner!? Have never he
    Unfortunately air pollution doesn't observe state boundaries...
     
  11. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    #11 BluestarE3, Mar 15, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    Nor national boundaries. But we have to do what we can in the domains over which can exercise some influence. If it turns out the US does back out of the Paris agreement, that doesn't mean other countries should do likewise because it would be pointless as US pollution would just waft over borders and oceans. Likewise, for States, communities and individuals, we can enact legislation and make personal choices to try to ameliorate the consequences of the lack of leadership at the Federal level.
     
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  12. Webeevdrivers

    Webeevdrivers Member

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    Won't affect us as we are in Canada. But if enough damage is done and TESLA moves to Europe and Nissan shuts down their leaf factory in Tennessee it will be interesting to see what EV's are imported to Canada. Should be interesting.
     
  13. Thomas Edison

    Thomas Edison Member

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    #13 Thomas Edison, Mar 15, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    I don't see why it matters at all, those regulations don't effect electric cars. I'm not going to worry about what donkey regulations are if I'm buying a unicorn. I want a freaking unicorn!
    IMG_7373.jpg
     
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  14. bak_phy

    bak_phy Member

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    But donkey regulations would make donkeys cheaper at the expense of unicorns. You might end up getting the donkey and spending your savings on fairy dust.
     
  15. N5329K

    N5329K Member

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    Toyota, the world's biggest automaker, makes Compliance Cars for the US market. The minimum possible performance and range to get the credits, they still refuse to produce an EV or a PHEV that can compete with 2010 technology levels.
    Agreed. The only Japanese engineers who should be more ashamed of themselves are the ones who thought a Honda Clarity with 80 miles EV range was a great idea. Hello, 1996 called and it's looking for it's EV.
    If you believe Toyota's lobbyists will be at Starbucks during the meetings, you would be mistaken.
    Agreed. No doubt they have their fingers in the grits.
    States have few rights. California doesn't even have Senators in the US Congress anymore.
    Disagree. No matter which candidate you hoped would go to Washington, California still has the CARB (Clean Air Resources Board). These are the folks GM bragged to when they said they could come up with an EV no sweat, and CARB said, "Prove it." That was how the EV1 was (unwillingly) born. The CARB sets tough state standards and lets automakers choose to either comply or go sell their wares someplace else. The CARB won't back down and, no doubt, this will result in some swamp-dwelling Washington politicians suing CARB. That will be an important court case to watch, and neither of California's senators will have diddly to do with it.
    Robin
     
  16. Thomas Edison

    Thomas Edison Member

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    The price of the unicorn determines whether or not I'll buy the unicorn, not the price of the donkey. I've owned several donkeys and I'm ready to ride into the sunset on rainbows instead of poison. The model 3's price tag makes that an option for me.
     
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  17. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    If there are any cost savings to be gained by not enforcing existing MPG or emissions standards, I'm skeptical any of those savings will flow through to the consumer. So, the donkey vendor can now sell you a gimp donkey at the same price as previously for a spry one. Meanwhile, unicorn prices will come down as the Unicorn Giga-ranch reaches full production and ranchers in other parts of the world start breeding unicorns and exporting them here.
     
  18. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    #18 Canuck, Mar 15, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    We're talking about vehicle mileage and emissions but that's very Trump of you to take it to the extreme as if a certain fraction of us believe the government should force us to do "everything"... because caring for our children's future and government control of "everything" are one and the same.

    Fortunately your politics didn't condemn us to the smog of the 70"s when the same arguments you make today about vehicle emissions were made back then. Regulations won out in those days but over much opposition and automaker lobbying.

    Unfortunately, however, your politics and auto lobbyists may condemn us to much worse today.

    I remember those 70's people with mindsets like you so it's not about me. I'm leaving this world so my concern is not for me but those that come after me including my children and their children.

    Imagine LA today if we didn't regulate vehicle emissions in the 70's... Better yet, just take a look at places with no regs and you don't need to imagine it.
     
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  19. slipnslider

    slipnslider Member

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    That's the BS boogeyman version of "liberals" that is sold to gullible conservatives by conservative propaganda channels, in order to make their viewers vote against their own best interests.

    It usually doesn't work too well on more educated and informed people. But america has fewer and fewer of those these days, and decades of refusing to support public education has created a country collectively gullible enough to buy lies like that, and elect a con man to the presidency.
     
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  20. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    Yep, like my sister-in-law who would always have a ready and smug "dig" for her "liberal" relatives in California. She lives on Social Security and relies on Medicare. Lately, she's getting really scared about her future as reality (and not alt-facts) hits home.
     
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