Trying to learn why I get Phantom Braking (video)

[vikefan]

Then it’s pretty irresponsible of Tesla not to put a warning on the screen. How many people need to be in a near accident or an accident when it first happens before they start telling new owners?

But what you said has nothing to do at all with my original post. I want to see what your dashcam was showing when you had the phantom braking.

Please try harder to stay on topic

I know you’re really excited to have your new car and all, and you might think you’re bestowing some amazing new insight into the car’s behavior on everyone else here, but newsflash: you’re not.

There are 200+ threads on just this forum alone, spanning years, that have already discussed phantom braking ad nauseum. It is literally the reason why you even knew to title this thread using that particular terminology in the first place. The first reply to this thread is demonstrating some of the frustration that likely exists with established Tesla owners over having to read yet another thread about this problem, so your “try harder to stay on topic” condescension is not needed. You should try harder to use google for 5 seconds and find out the answer to your question, because it’s already well known.

However, in the spirit of giving, I’ll answer this question once again. The reason you experience periodic phantom braking is because AUTOMATIC DRIVING IS IN BETA TESTING. It has never been promoted as a fully developed and perfectly functioning feature. We are in the year 2020, not 2040. A car that literally drives itself on the road didn’t even exist at all even just a few short years ago.

For those of us in the software development world, that kind of progress is practically light speed; and yet we still have rubes who clearly don’t have a very good understanding of how software development works (and doesn’t) buying brand spanking new technology and then being shocked when that brand new technology isn’t functioning quite as well as their toaster, which was invented in 1893.

the car is still learning how to interpret road signs and human driving behavior, not to mention software bugs that will literally *ALWAYS* exist and need to be continually fixed (as is the case with all software ever developed). Deal with it.

 

[Altimas]

... and lets be real, its getting better with every (other) update

 

[EA500]

....and if you think you can do better, have at it. Then we can complain about how your software doesn't do what we want it to.

 

[camalaio]

I know you’re really excited to have your new car and all, and you might think you’re bestowing some amazing new insight into the car’s behavior on everyone else here, but newsflash: you’re not.

There are 200+ threads on just this forum alone, spanning years, that have already discussed phantom braking ad nauseum. It is literally the reason why you even knew to title this thread using that particular terminology in the first place. The first reply to this thread is demonstrating some of the frustration that likely exists with established Tesla owners over having to read yet another thread about this problem, so your “try harder to stay on topic” condescension is not needed. You should try harder to use google for 5 seconds and find out the answer to your question, because it’s already well known.

However, in the spirit of giving, I’ll answer this question once again. The reason you experience periodic phantom braking is because AUTOMATIC DRIVING IS IN BETA TESTING. It has never been promoted as a fully developed and perfectly functioning feature. We are in the year 2020, not 2040. A car that literally drives itself on the road didn’t even exist at all even just a few short years ago.

For those of us in the software development world, that kind of progress is practically light speed; and yet we still have rubes who clearly don’t have a very good understanding of how software development works (and doesn’t) buying brand spanking new technology and then being shocked when that brand new technology isn’t functioning quite as well as their toaster, which was invented in 1893.

the car is still learning how to interpret road signs and human driving behavior, not to mention software bugs that will literally *ALWAYS* exist and need to be continually fixed (as is the case with all software ever developed). Deal with it.

Speaking of condescension?

As you say, we have a new owner here. Not everyone has hours and hours to search through all the threads across multiple forums. Even less have been soaked on the forum for a long time and have the history in their mind.

Forums are both a place of history and a place of current discussion. People come and go. It's easy to say "lol search", but even what's previously written changes. Wipers for example: they operate completely differently now. Are they better? Not really. Are they worse? Not really. But they have changed over time, and the specific issues people have with the wipers have morphed.

In fact, the OP asked a very specific question most of us have ignored that I don't think anyone has asked before: They wanted to know if the flashing had anything to do with the phantom braking. And they provided a video, something begged for constantly in phantom braking threads, and they opened the thread with the video!

So let's stop ragging on other owners that are just trying to figure out why their car is doing something unexpected and are genuinely asking novel questions. We've actually learned more about what potential causes there are of phantom braking by new people bringing in their own anecdotes and videos, not by saying "it's beta, deal with it". Jeez people.

Again, @TLLMRRJ: It's almost certainly not the flashing that caused it. Reviewing your video again is a true mystery, it seems like absolutely nothing we previously know of could have caused it to slow down. True phantom braking. Thanks for the video.

Addressing the beta point specifically... adaptive cruise has been around in various manufacturers for over a decade. No other manufacturer felt compelled to call their product a beta for a single day, let alone multiple years. There are adaptive cruise systems today that exhibit less phantom braking than Tesla's. Tesla's is not the universal best. Let's all collectively get over that and expect Tesla to do better rather than give them a pass. Competition is supposed to spur on innovation, not complacency.

... and lets be real, its getting better with every (other) update

And some updates also add more opportunity for phantom slowdowns, like the newer feature where the car will slow down if adjacent lanes are detected to be moving significantly slower. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

....and if you think you can do better, have at it. Then we can complain about how your software doesn't do what we want it to.

I (and most people) can tell if an engine is running bad. It doesn't mean we need to know how to build a better engine to have an opinion on it.

 

[EA500]

Wrong! After a dozen posts and the OP not getting it, it became clear they have an ax to grind. Gloves off.

 

[vikefan]

Addressing the beta point specifically... adaptive cruise has been around in various manufacturers for over a decade. No other manufacturer felt compelled to call their product a beta for a single day, let alone multiple years. There are adaptive cruise systems today that exhibit less phantom braking than Tesla's. Tesla's is not the universal best.

I said a car that literally drives itself, not “adaptive cruise control”, which is not at all that. Adaptive cruise control isn’t a steering mechanism. Last time I checked, the act of driving requires steering.

and what are you smoking if you think it takes “hours and hours” to use the internet to look for an answer to a question? Are you relying on telegraph to get your answers? Go to google.com and type “phantom braking tesla” in the search bar. See what happens in about 0.5 seconds...assuming you aren’t using a dial-up modem, which I guess might not be a safe assumption for you.

 

[67King]

However, in the spirit of giving, I’ll answer this question once again. The reason you experience periodic phantom braking is because AUTOMATIC DRIVING IS IN BETA TESTING. It has never been promoted as a fully developed and perfectly functioning feature. We are in the year 2020, not 2040. A car that literally drives itself on the road didn’t even exist at all even just a few short years ago.

For those of us in the software development world, that kind of progress is practically light speed; and yet we still have rubes who clearly don’t have a very good understanding of how software development works..................

I understand your point, and agree with you; however, the analogy to software is a little different. AP has been a feature that has been a costly option to consumers. It has since been made standard, in conjunction with an increase in price. So effectively it still has a cost. Most Beta users of software are getting the stuff for free, as they are helping the developer refine it.

Second of all, cruise control has been in production for over 60 years (63, to be precise). We are not discussing an emerging technology.

If AUTOMATIC DRIVING IN BETA TESTING were not a standard feature, or at least could be overridden such that a conventional cruise control were available, then your point would be completely valid. However, outside of that, it is pretty difficult to be so dismissive of complaints. Whether people want to admit it or not, it IS a safety issue. Even when people follow the most conservative laws, the reaction time of drivers used by NHTSA is 1.5 seconds, which is 150 feet before the driver behind you can react. Conservative laws put a safe following distance of 1 car length per 10MPH, which would be about 140 feet. ONe car is not a problem, but several cars are. And frankly, knowing that a driver was or was not following an appropriate distance isn't really relevant when one is without transportation, severely injured, or even dead.