If you own a house and rent that house out a new house wasn't created.
It is still the same house you have just exchanged certain rights associated with it for money.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
- Status
It is still the same house you have just exchanged certain rights associated with it for money.
I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong.
* apologies to the billions who have seen this joke before
A share was rented with the right to sell it. It was sold. The person who rented it is obligated to buy a share in the future and return it to the origional owner. But no new share was created.
Only the obligation of the short seller to buy a share in the future and return it was created.
Tesla will only recognize the 170 million shares for share holder votes and to pay dividends to (if tesla were to pay dividends). For dividends it would be the short seller's responsibility to pay those to whom they rented the stock from.
Nobody should be replying to you, because you are a paid astroturfer. I've seen you types so very many times before.
Shorts DO NOT create shares, legally. That's naked shorting and it is ~supposed~ to be heavily restricted.
Virtual or counterfeit shares get created with a naked short sell followed by a fail to deliver event.
There may be legitimate reasons for these but if they happen frequently and for long time periods or are done to influence the price of the stock they can cross over into being a crime.
My favourite part is about how LG is trying to force them to pay 10% higher prices on batteries than previously agreed on because batteries are in short supply.
Aka, battery costs are moving in the wrong direction for these "Tesla killers"
HE'S not short anything. His masters are. He is just paid to get forums like this one off topic and obsessed over contrived trivialities
Mod: Banned already. Thanks for providing reasons, I had my own earlier. But stop now. I really must for health get on another treadmill for exercise.
I'm deleting as appropriate while working through your prolific outpouring.
Last edited by a moderator:
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Are you saying Chinese workers are better off than Bangladeshi workers ? Definitely, given the difference in median income.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Are you sure about "powder coating"? That's a specific process using a sprayed powder which is then baked to melt and form a coating. From what I've seen it looks as if Tesla is spraying liquid paint layers, probably two part cured urethanes.
Most of the longs bought their shares years ago and never touched them since -- hence the name "longs".
Shares we purchased years ago have absolutely no influence whatsoever to recent stock price movements.
On the other hand, the 60%-75% of the daily traded volume by shorts has a direct and strong influence.
Thats the statistics you see reported by Papafox every day, and it practically never goes below 50%, mostly above 60%.
So yes, indeed, the shorts have bigger influence than the longs since they do most of the trades.
Pretty obvious logic 101, unless you bury your head in the sand and point to irrelevant numbers sitting in accounts for years.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Difficult to predict with India. The party in power stirs the pot of social unrest and plays Hindus against Muslims to gain political power - much like Trump. Where that will lead is difficult to tell. They could lose power and India will be back to good growth rates or descend into chaos.
BTW, in the last few years, since Modi came to power, inequality in India has gone up, ranked now 147 out of 157.
Buddyroe
Active Member
I was reading some negative comments on Fox News a couple of days ago in the comment section of a piece about the $45k M3. I was so shocked to read, "Don't these stupid liberals know that they will never recoup their money on these crappy electric cars? They could have just bought an Accord or Camry and saved $20k."
I didn't even respond. All I could think is, "man, it must be BAD to be THAT stupid and THAT far behind the times."
It's hard to believe there are morons in America that think the reason people are buying Teslas is for saving money on gas.
And as a footnote, of the 20 or 30 Tesla owners I have met, the vast majority have been moderates or conservatives (yes, I ask - typically I start out with, "did you buy your Tesla for the environment", and the conversation goes from there).
When will people get that the reason people buy a Tesla has little or no political bearing? It's just a BETTER car!!
I didn't even respond. All I could think is, "man, it must be BAD to be THAT stupid and THAT far behind the times."
It's hard to believe there are morons in America that think the reason people are buying Teslas is for saving money on gas.
And as a footnote, of the 20 or 30 Tesla owners I have met, the vast majority have been moderates or conservatives (yes, I ask - typically I start out with, "did you buy your Tesla for the environment", and the conversation goes from there).
When will people get that the reason people buy a Tesla has little or no political bearing? It's just a BETTER car!!
Ok fair points. "A dictatorship is a dictatorship" was probably an over simplification. I am also not a China expert so I'll take your word for how it works there. But I must admit I am a bit skeptical on judiciary oversight over the government. I was a little kid (10) when communism ended here, plus the dictatorship was much lighter in the 80s already. We even had some comedians who were allowed to lightly poke fun at the state and trials were no longer starting with the verdict ready to be signed. Still, everyone knew they can only go so far, or else...
Sorry for the weekend OT:
Chooose is a climate action platform that battles the core problem of climate change - emissions from big polluters.
Companies that pollute buy carbon credits equivalent to the tons of CO2 they release into the atmosphere.
Chooose also buys carbon credits. But instead of polluting, we tear them up and remove them from circulation completely. The money paid for carbon credits goes to UN-certified clean energy projects in developing countries.
Now, I have some questions:
- what do you think about it? is is a feasible strategy?
- I often wonder, in my absolute ignorance, if Tesla could do more with the CARB credits it possess. Elon always said they are receiving pennies on the dollar, and they are going to earn *a lot* of them in the coming months. Do you think it could try to destroy some of them to make it more difficult ot other manufacturers?Is it possible to starve the market?
IIIRC, Tesla dropped its plan to use powder coatings in 2010 in favor of BASF's low VOC, waterborne system.
Eine starke Partnerschaft (E-Journal 3/2013) : BASF Coatings GmbH
Automotive OEM Coatings : BASF Coatings GmbH
2virgule5
Member
Well, give them some slack, it’s not that easy to program another cheat device to fake the EPA range test...
@Smokey4141 is not wrong about virtual (or other term) shares.
Say I have 1000 shares, and my brokerage lends half of them out and someone else buys those shorted shares. As far as I know I have 1000 shares and as far as they know they have 500 shares. Total 1,500 shares. That is why shorts are on the hook for dividends (assuming the company/stock has them), I should be getting dividends on the stock I own but currently don't possess.
With 30 million shares shorted, and 170 million shares issued, there is a total of 200 million shares people think they have. However, there are still only 170 million voteable shares, thus the need for a share recall before a major shareholder vote.
Say I have 1000 shares, and my brokerage lends half of them out and someone else buys those shorted shares. As far as I know I have 1000 shares and as far as they know they have 500 shares. Total 1,500 shares. That is why shorts are on the hook for dividends (assuming the company/stock has them), I should be getting dividends on the stock I own but currently don't possess.
With 30 million shares shorted, and 170 million shares issued, there is a total of 200 million shares people think they have. However, there are still only 170 million voteable shares, thus the need for a share recall before a major shareholder vote.
Smokey4141
Banned
I have no idea how you'd think you know that.....but throw it out there anyway...
And...ummm, the only "Master" paying me is Ms. Market....
$3.91 / share on Friday alone...
You're killing me, guys...
Just trying to point out that there is "another" side to a market, and in particular the TSLA market.....but I can see many of you are having no part of it... All I can say is, there will be a time in markets ahead, where you're going to say, "Geez, this is crazy... The only way I can make any money in the market is to be short..."
But clearly, that's gonna be a hard transition for many to make......and you don't want to be the last one to make the transition...
Central banks have artificially skewed the "risk" part of the equation severely the last 10 years, and times are-a-changing...
Good luck...
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty certain they are using powder coat painting, this old article says:
The Tesla Factory: Birthplace of the Model S
The Model S paint process will differ from traditional paint in an effort to reduce emissions. The innovative paint process will use powder coating for both the primer and clear coat layers. The Model S will be one of the first cars to employ not one, but two layers of powder coating. Traditional liquid paints contain harmful VOCs. By using powder paint, we will substantially reduce factory emissions while producing class-leading paint quality. To paint, the car will be attached to an electricity source and grounded. The positively-charged paint will be sprayed with paint guns. The charged particles are electrostatically attracted to the car and spread evenly. Once applied, the car travels on a conveyor belt through a 350 degree oven to cure the paint. Between the primer and clear powder coats, the color layer will be applied. After the three paint layers are applied, the car will be wet sanded to ensure a flawless surface.
The Model S paint process will differ from traditional paint in an effort to reduce emissions. The innovative paint process will use powder coating for both the primer and clear coat layers. The Model S will be one of the first cars to employ not one, but two layers of powder coating. Traditional liquid paints contain harmful VOCs. By using powder paint, we will substantially reduce factory emissions while producing class-leading paint quality. To paint, the car will be attached to an electricity source and grounded. The positively-charged paint will be sprayed with paint guns. The charged particles are electrostatically attracted to the car and spread evenly. Once applied, the car travels on a conveyor belt through a 350 degree oven to cure the paint. Between the primer and clear powder coats, the color layer will be applied. After the three paint layers are applied, the car will be wet sanded to ensure a flawless surface.
8 years old article but I think it's true for both the S, X and 3.
Powder coat painting has a number of advantages over wet painting:
- paint solvents are dangerous - no volatile solvents with powder at all
- excess powder can simply be vacuumed away
- waste paint when switching color batches is minimal
- the electrostatic charge makes sure there's neither overspray nor underspay
- transportation and storage of powder is easier
- the result is superior due to uniform layer width and high quality curing
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Poll
