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Tsld today: we're going to need more airport charging stations

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by artsci, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    This morning I saw my first Model S in the flesh in the Baltimore area. But the circumstances gave me pause and raised some questions about public charging station etiquette.

    I drove to the airport for a trip to Miami and when I pulled into the charging station area at BWI, all four charging stations were occupied, one by a black Model S, the other three by Volts. So I was prevented from charging, which means the gas generator will be on for part of my return home, a real no-no for me.

    The first thought that went through my head was the the Model S (had to be an 85KWH) really didn't need a charge and was unfairly taking the space I needed. But as I gave it further thought, I concluded that I couldn't make any assumptions about the state of charge of any of the cars occupying the charging spaces. In my own case, my Volt sometimes occupies a charging space for 2 or 3 days when I'm on a long trip when it only needs 4 hours for a full charge. That's not fair to any Volts, Leafs, Teslas or other EVs that arrive after me.

    Can't think of a good solution to this problem other than an appeal to the State agency with responsibility for this to increase the number of charging stations.

    But I did decide one thing: when I drive my Model S to the airport if the state of charge is sufficient for the trip back home (with an 85KWh, it certainly always will be) good manners will require that I not take a charging space and leave them for drivers who need a charge. So when my Model S arrives in the spring I'll probably never use the airport charging stations again.
     
  2. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    There's a whole host of factors here, and as you said you really can't make assumptions about it.

    I drive 65 miles to get to the St. Louis airport and I go on business trips that sometimes go 10-14 days. With that profile, I may not have enough charge when I get back to drive home if I can't be plugged in at the airport (vampire draw / battery maintenance).

    At the St. Louis airport, the free chargers (5 spaces) are only 16A, 200V. That's only 10 rated miles per hour of charge.

    What I *would* appreciate more than anything are more 120V outlets for long-term trips. At the airport, I don't need anything more than that -- heck, even if it didn't charge me but just maintained my SOC, I'd be a happy man.

    it seems like airports are trying to figure out their consumers' charging profiles. You have the short-term profiles -- I needed to drop someone off at the airport 100 miles away and I'll do a bit of shopping at the "destination stores" there while I recharge using a fast charger; you have the long-term profiles -- I am taking my 14 day business drip and 120V @ 12A is just fine for me; you have a potential for superchargers -- airports generally have a great setting, mostly industrial with good road network and attachment to the grid, and lots of potential solar space.

    I think they'll continue to learn the right lessons here.
     
  3. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    I would like to see the airports have a whole row of 120 V chargers that are in the back of the parking area. Anything more than an overnight trip and that will be just fine and you won't need to worry about it getting ICEd since it's nonpremium. It would also be nice to have a few EV only premium spots without chargers so the people who don't need a charge but try to leverage the EV for all its worth can do so. We'll see.
     
  4. Ingineer

    Ingineer Electrical Engineer

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    I agree, just add a bunch of 120v outlets, and don't bother with the expensive EVSE's. Much cheaper! If they can be located in non-prime locations, that's even better. (I don't mind walking.) Problem is that the power feed is usually near a building, so it would be a big expensive undertaking to route it long distances to the edge of the lot.

    If you ever travel around near the arctic circle, it's common to see huge banks of 120v outlets in parking lots because people need to plug in their block heaters. If this concept were extended south, we'd be in business!

    -Phil
     
  5. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

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    One of the off site parking lots at CVG (cincinnati) has a lot with 120v outlets for diesel vehicles to plug into. Luckily, they welcome EV's to plug in as well. I see more Volt's in that lot than I do diesel vehicles :)
     
  6. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    This is a good solution. I'm going to suggest it to the head of the state agency -- I had the opportunity to meet her at an EV event last fall.
     
  7. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    With most businesses this is true but not necessarily airports. An airport is such a large load center, it can have it's own dedicated substation. In large airports with parking garages, the power doesn't necessarily come from the terminal as there are lots of other buildings around and lighting throughout the parking garage already. It may even be cheaper to install them in the farther locations due to the distribution system.
     
  8. Ocelot

    Ocelot Member

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    i do see a lot of talk on this forum of moving EV spots to 'non-premium' spots. i would agree with this, but also that while 'changes are being made then they ensure to have a handicap/charger spot available...for those with varying abilities who would like to drive electric.
     
  9. dave

    dave Member

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    Do you mind sharing which site that is? I'm getting my Tesla this weekend, and will have to fly out of CVG once every month or two. Thanks!!
     
  10. donauker

    donauker Member

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    We regularly fly out of BWI and any assumptions made against our 85kWh Model S would be quite wrong! The car is a daily driver and would have about 75 miles of use before returning home from work. Only a few minutes of charging while quickly loading our bags before the 100 mile drive to the airport. For a typical 3 day trip we are looking at another 40 miles or so of vampire losses and at current temperatures we aren't getting anywhere near rated range so with no charging that leaves us virtually empty on our return. That means we would need to spend most of the night at a nearby charger to be able to make it home and arrive with no charge for the required daily use. I would gladly buy any of the Volt drivers the 1 gallon on gas they will save by using one of those spaces!

    Even with this situation I do feel guilty taking a charge space for 3 days and totally agree that we need several rows of 110 outlets because that is all it would take for 3 plus day stays.
     
  11. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Agree and that's why I said it was unfair to make any assumptions about the state of charge of cars occupying the charging spaces. A row of 110v outlets would solve the problem in an instant and be much less a hassle and expense for the state (which runs BWI).
     
  12. agileone

    agileone CDN P#40

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    I guess at airports, chargers should be managed by the valet parking team as a premium, but free service. They just need to know when you come back and put your car on charge during the previous few hours... No?
     
  13. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    There is another thread discussing this .. can't find it at the moment. We came to the same conclusion: at airports, a row of spaces with 110V outlets would solve many issues and be much cheaper to implement.
     
  14. PureAmps

    PureAmps Model S P85 (#2817)

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    I agree a lot more 110V plugs is a great short term solution for any kind of extended parking charging situation: airports, hotels, etc. It is cheap, quick and easy to implement.

    But what I would really like to see longer term for this kind of "trickle charging" is an inductive charging solution similar to that offered by Plugless Power. The trouble with any kind of corded solution for long term unattended charging is there is a risk someone will unplug you, park with their wheels on top of your cord, etc. I would really like the EV manufacturers to agree on a standard for inductive charging, that includes not only the technology standard, but also the location of the inductive charging receiver on the car (front, rear, etc.).
     
  15. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say just the opposite. The Model S was the only one WITH a valid reason to stay there the whole time, while the Volt's can park elsewhere. Upon returning to the vehicle, if the S was not plugged in and had no charge left due to extreme temperatures overnight, then their stuck. A Volt on the other hand can still get home on the gas engine. So IMHO the Model S should stay parked there, and the Volt's shouldn't be hogging the charging stations.
     
  16. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    This is not an either/or situation. The 5-15 outlets for maintenance is a great idea. But why not supplement that with Level 2 chargers and charge a fee? Those who need a larger charge, get it, those who can handle picking up a few miles an hour over a 50 hour stay get that. And most people won't park at the Level 2 charger unless they really need it due to the cost.
     
  17. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    No. There is simply no way I will allow any valet to drive my cars...I think it the 110 volt outlets is the best answer for longer term EV parking.

     
  18. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    lol in NYC I basically have no choice but to use valet... there are a few self-park lots but I trust the valet people with my cars so much more than I do with random people in parking lots! At least valets do this for a living... would you rather have 80yr old women (heh sry for the stereotype) parking next to your Model S or would you rather have valet people park cars next to yours? Definitely the latter....
     
  19. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Not saying you said this but want to make sure that this thought is not left hanging as gospel. What if the driver drove 160 to 300 to get to the airport? They need a charge to get back home. What if an S owner drove a long trip the day before but was unable to charge the night before? (friends house, hotel)
    Just because an EV is long range capable does not mean it did a short trip to the charge point nor that the driver left home with a full charge.
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Quebec valet clocks BMW in at 240 km/h

     

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