Tsunami update (of hurt)

[bonnie]

I heart the shorts. So does my portfolio. I hope they keep repeating the insanity. It's much appreciated.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

I like the way you said this go around. People don't learn from mistakes and rather than admit one we will see more short selling the higher this goes. The large sell off two days before report (10 million shares) were new short sellers who believed it would drop post report. The future short sellers will only believe the shorted at the wrong price, not that this company will thrive.

having said that, I have come to appreciate short sellers. They can certainly help drive a price down but also catalyze the upswing when they are wrong

Their beneficial effect on Tesla aside, Shorts play an extremely important role in determining the "correct" market price. If nobody is aggressively arguing the null case and attacking the stock the quality of the information in the market will suffer and capital will be allocated less efficiently.

Frankly, I respect a lot of the core arguments of the Shorts regarding Tesla. I've done my own research, and I think they are wrong, but there are awfully good reasons to predict that Tesla will fail. Though, in fairness many of the reasons they actually use in the press to convince other investors are just pure FUD when you get down to it. While they have some valid concerns, they also have a huge incentive to put out negative misinformation, and they often do so.

 

[AWDtsla]

Their beneficial effect on Tesla aside, Shorts play an extremely important role in determining the "correct" market price. If nobody is aggressively arguing the null case and attacking the stock the quality of the information in the market will suffer and capital will be allocated less efficiently.

Frankly, I respect a lot of the core arguments of the Shorts regarding Tesla. I've done my own research, and I think they are wrong, but there are awfully good reasons to predict that Tesla will fail. Though, in fairness many of the reasons they actually use in the press to convince other investors are just pure FUD when you get down to it. While they have some valid concerns, they also have a huge incentive to put out negative misinformation, and they often do so.

This is an overly simplistic view of capitalist economics. Under perfect circumstances and all things being equal perhaps the system will seek an appropriate valuation. Of course, we live in the real world... and the real world isn't here to conform to our beliefs about it.

The shorts are there because most people, even the ones we think are smart, can't see past their own nose. All of human history should be evidence of that.

 

[vfx]

...
Frankly, I respect a lot of the core arguments of the Shorts regarding Tesla. I've done my own research, and I think they are wrong, but there are awfully good reasons to predict that Tesla will fail. Though, in fairness many of the reasons they actually use in the press to convince other investors are just pure FUD when you get down to it. While they have some valid concerns, they also have a huge incentive to put out negative misinformation, and they often do so.

Are you running for office?

 

[gregincal]

Though, in fairness many of the reasons they actually use in the press to convince other investors are just pure FUD when you get down to it. While they have some valid concerns, they also have a huge incentive to put out negative misinformation, and they often do so.

This is exactly why many on this board hate the shorts. The fact is that previously there were many reasons for rational people to doubt the company's survival, but as they disappeared the shorts (or their proxies) kept harping on them as if they were not only still valid, but a foregone conclusion. I think people feel that whether they believe the FUD without researching it or purposefully spread information that was false, they deserve what they get.

 

[FalconNinetyD]

TSUNAMI is taken in California, but the following are available:

 

[akula]

Salami of hurt?

TSUNAMI is taken in California, but the following are available:

View attachment 21768View attachment 21769

 

[fjm9898]

haha that is what i read

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Are you running for office?

I dunno, lol. The short version of what I said is "there are valid reasons to think Tesla will fail, but most of what you see Shorts talking about in the press is pure B.S."

 

[fjm9898]

Who has a surf board this morning! ride the wave!

 

[ShortSlaver]

Their beneficial effect on Tesla aside, Shorts play an extremely important role in determining the "correct" market price. If nobody is aggressively arguing the null case and attacking the stock the quality of the information in the market will suffer and capital will be allocated less efficiently.

Frankly, I respect a lot of the core arguments of the Shorts regarding Tesla. I've done my own research, and I think they are wrong, but there are awfully good reasons to predict that Tesla will fail. Though, in fairness many of the reasons they actually use in the press to convince other investors are just pure FUD when you get down to it. While they have some valid concerns, they also have a huge incentive to put out negative misinformation, and they often do so.

Perfectly said. Shorting exists for a very good reason (hell I've shorted plenty of stocks) but yes, as Tesla lovers we get annoyed with their manipulation and FUD. Well said.

- - - Updated - - -

Lots of volume so far, big boys starting to cover I think. Hit the limit for a lot of people at around 49.5. Will fall back and break through 80 I believe. Had walls at 70, 75 and now 79.5. Sellers out, will advance in the squeeze.

 

[MikeL]

Who will win the day? Profit takers (Fri.) or the Squeezed (also Fri.)?

 

[mitch672]

Who will win the day? Profit takers (Fri.) or the Squeezed (also Fri.)?

Easy, anyone with "calls" bought in the last several weeks

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Their beneficial effect on Tesla aside, Shorts play an extremely important role in determining the "correct" market price. If nobody is aggressively arguing the null case and attacking the stock the quality of the information in the market will suffer and capital will be allocated less efficiently.

Frankly, I respect a lot of the core arguments of the Shorts regarding Tesla. I've done my own research, and I think they are wrong, but there are awfully good reasons to predict that Tesla will fail. Though, in fairness many of the reasons they actually use in the press to convince other investors are just pure FUD when you get down to it. While they have some valid concerns, they also have a huge incentive to put out negative misinformation, and they often do so.

And that's the problem with shorts: they are people betting on failure. When you allow people to take out life insurance policies on others, don't be surprised when the death rate increases.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

To what extent can Tesla utilize this influx of capital? The CU review alone must be bringing a lot of new investors to the stock.

 

[gaswalla]

How is the stock price an influx of capital? (unless more shares are offered or sold by Tesla)

I thought we, the stockholders, were receiving the influx of capital :biggrin:

 

[bonnie]

To what extent can Tesla utilize this influx of capital? The CU review alone must be bringing a lot of new investors to the stock.

The higher the stock price, the lower the stock dilution (better for investors) if a new offering is made to raise additional capital. I suspect when the price breaks $100, we may hear of plans to do exactly that.

 

[ShortSlaver]

And that's the problem with shorts: they are people betting on failure. When you allow people to take out life insurance policies on others, don't be surprised when the death rate increases.

I disagree. Shorting is a great thing to have in markets as you need checks and balances. You aren't betting on failure - you're betting that a company is over valued and that the market will correct itself. And in fact it usually always does. If you feel a stock is overvalued then taking up a short position might benefit and you close the position when it drops to what you feel is undervalued. If you feel it is undervalued, then a long position makes sense and you sell when you believe the company is overvalued.

Shorting is extremely risky though, as we've seen here. At least when your long your total risk is your investment Shorting has the theoretical ability to go to infinity - or higher than you can cover anyhow. I've shorted a few stocks a bit and have had success, but I feel much better buying a PUT.

 

[ckessel]

I disagree. Shorting is a great thing to have in markets as you need checks and balances.

Yea, I've heard this before, but I'm not sure how much I buy it. First, if it's over valued then folks that want to sell won't find buyers and the price would come down anyway. Two, private companies have to raise money and be beholden to their private owners and that works just fine without the checks/balances of shorts.

If folks want to place bets on where a company is going, I'm not going to judge their desire to make an educated gamble. But I really don't see much validity in the view that shorts serve a virtuous market need.

 

[Citizen-T]

If shorts did not provide any value to the market, the market would eliminate them. That's what markets do best.

I agree with what was said earlier. I only dislike those that are shorting TSLA because of the FUD that they spread to try to goose their positions. I'd be fine if they just made their case based on facts, but they don't. They play dirty trying to drive the price down for their own benefit. I think our regulators need to do a better job of making sure everyone is playing by the rules. I don't have a problem with shorts that are playing fair.