Two days with Model 3 impressions/review- This is not a mini model S

[Ken7]

This is a massive problem to me. There’s no way the “flagship” S should be allowed to have an inferior UI. It’s inexcusable for a vehicle twice the price or more. Yes, I understand they’re differently sized vehicles, but they’ve had plenty of time to plan. An S interior refresh to surpass the 3 should’ve been announced already for delivery when the 3 was launched.

I have a day one 3 reservation and my S is coming off lease in April. I can’t imagine getting a new S in 4 months with an inferior screen/cluster.

Yet I would never describe the screen in my 2017 S as low rez or poor. In fact I find the screen to be far better than any other screens I've had in my prior cars. The backup camera is very high rez for a camera of this type.

I can't make valid comparisons to the 3, since I haven't yet sat in a 3, but let's control ourselves here, the screen in the S is very very nice and the larger size doesn't hurt either.

 

[sweter]

I'll take the other side of that bet. In fact, I'm willing to bet a comprehensive interior redesign of the Model S is available before mid 2019. (In all likelihood, it will be by mid 2018, but decided to give myself a little wiggle room.)

Yup, exactly. If Model S and X are to stay flagship vehicles and money makers then they need an update otherwise sales will start to fall when Model 3 is generally available.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Yet I would never describe the screen in my 2017 S as low rez or poor. In fact I find the screen to be far better than any other screens I've had in my prior cars. The backup camera is very high rez for a camera of this type.

I can't make valid comparisons to the 3, since I haven't yet sat in a 3, but let's control ourselves here, the screen in the S is very very nice and the larger size doesn't hurt either.

I don't know if it was the refresh rate, a lower quality rear view camera or the 15" screen but the display of the Model 3's rear view camera didn't look nearly as good as the view from the rear camera on the Model S.

 

[Ken7]

I don't know if it was the refresh rate, a lower quality rear view camera or the 15" screen but the display of the Model 3's rear view camera didn't look nearly as good as the view from the rear camera on the Model S.

I’ve heard that from others too.

I should also note that as of yesterday, the Model S now has rain sensing wipers.

 

[MarkS22]

Yet I would never describe the screen in my 2017 S as low rez or poor. In fact I find the screen to be far better than any other screens I've had in my prior cars. The backup camera is very high rez for a camera of this type.

I can't make valid comparisons to the 3, since I haven't yet sat in a 3, but let's control ourselves here, the screen in the S is very very nice and the larger size doesn't hurt either.

I’ve had the car for almost 3 years. I see the displays getting better on my friends BMWs... much better PPI and contrast. (Even if the UI isn’t nearly as good.) I’ve upgraded my iPad 3 times during my ownership and the Model S looks and feels like an iPad from 5 years ago. I’m typing this on an iPad Pro now.

Years ago, Elon commented that your tablet and phone shouldn’t be better than the car’s screen. And yet here we are with a 2011 chipset. I was expecting more rapid increases in UI/UX technology over 3 years.

It’s still a good experience but it’s certainly not keeping up with the latest GPU and screen technologies.

 

[MarkS22]

Also the S is hardly the flagship. The goal of the company was always Model 3. It's their pinnacle achievement and the result of the original master plan. It is the most important product that they've produced to date and will affect the most people. If you want to look at the highest performance vehicle, it's going to be the future Roadster.

Think of the S as simply a larger more premium vehicle that will often have certain features before Model 3, similar to a BMW 5 series vs a BMW 3 series.
Elon Musk on Twitter

When I say flagship, I mean “more premium” choice, as you described. Obviously, it won’t be the top seller. But, at this point, it’s not leading the way in technology. It was my understanding the S and X would typically have new technology features first or at least the same time. The S doesn’t even have self-closing doors from the X yet. The S doesn’t have an internal camera (hopefully so you don’t have to keep wiggling the steering wheel on AP). The 3 has a higher quality GPU and more responsive interface.

In my opinion, the S/X were presented as (and I believed would be) the pinnacle of innovation. 3 was a pinnacle of streamlining and production. If they don’t have enough time to keep the S fresh—the vehicle that made all this possible and disrupted the industry—that’s a mistake. They don’t want S owners peeling away to the 3. A lot of owners don’t care about insane acceleration and don’t need the extra space. I know several. They just had no other option. Don’t underestimate how many Tesla fans are major tech enthusiasts, not people who need large sedans or higher performance than the 3.

 

[Canuck]

I'm 46. I own cars for 18 years routinely. If in 2035 car ownership in America is similar to how it is today, I will eat a Model 3 steel-belted radial (preferably the 19" fitment). The major change will be autonomy, of course, at which point I'll just summon a vehicle to my door as needed rather than owning one. This is why I expect M3 to be my last owned vehicle; autonomy/summon/sharing will arrive in earnest before my M3 has reached the end of its useful life.

I won't take that bet since I never said car ownership will be the same in 2035 -- I said I doubt I will see the day when cars are like horses -- in that we have to go to a place if I want to drive a car, like I have to do today if I want to ride a horse. That was all I was doubting. Although I would like to see you eat that tire, it seems pretty safe that you won't have to.

I will bet you that, at 46, the Model 3 will not be the last car you buy. Of course, it could be since I don't know you and some people don't even own cars but take transit, uber or ride a bike, so it's not like you have to own a car. But still, something tells me it won't be your last car. I won't eat that tire if I lose though...

 

[Canuck]

Years ago, Elon commented that your tablet and phone shouldn’t be better than the car’s screen.

I don't remember that one but I do remember this:

Tesla Model S to get app support and Chrome by late 2014 (video)

Tesla's Model S to Get Google Chrome And Third-Party Apps

 

[DennisLevitt]

We took delivery of a Model 3 four days ago, and I've owned a Model S for nearly five years. My current P85 is 3.5 years old. So it doesn't have AutoPilot.

The Model 3 is a great compact car. It's light. It's very nimble and handles turns beautifully. It has a great turning radius. It accelerates very well. And the stark alien spaceship like interior is stunning. The single slot air conditioning is super cool. And yes, the screen is really sharp. But to think that this car is better, or even comparable, to a Model S is IMHO delusional.

The Model S is an ultra-high end luxury sedan. It is smooth as silk on most any road. In the Model 3, you can really feel the road, and not in that Porsche good kind of way. The 3 is a compact car that weighs about 1000 pounds less. The Model S cabin is virtually silent. The Model 3 lets in way more outside noise. The Model 3 has plenty of acceleration for normal driving, but it's not close to my P85. Did I mention sun roof and air suspension?

UI/UX is sometimes in the eye of the beholder, but I much prefer the MS. The Model 3 doesn't have an internet browser, and no big energy screen like the S. I like instantly seeing my mileage on my current trip and since my last charge. My S can have that visible all the time. The Model 3 requires several clicks and swipes on the screen to view it.

The screen on my 2017 Model 3 is much sharper than on my 2014 MS. Duh. Some of that is that is because the navigation screen is much smaller, and most is probably because screen technology on tablet devices has gotten much better. Maybe a 2017 Model S has a better screen than my MS ? Dunno.

The Model 3 is different than the Model S in many respects, and for some people those things (price, size, mileage, nimbleness, stark interior, turning radius) are most important. You might find that the Model 3 features are a better fit for you because on those things I believe it beats the MS.

In summary, I think the Model 3 is a great car. I have test driven a BMW i3, a Chevy Bolt, a Mercedes B200, a Ford Focus Electric and I owned a Nissan Leaf. The Model 3 is light years ahead of any of those.

 

[Canuck]

The Model 3 doesn't have an internet browser

That's the first time I've heard that. I know it won't bother many people who claim it's useless but I use mine all the time. And for those who say your phone is much better anyway, if we even touch them in BC we get a heavy fine and points. I wonder if it will be an option that will come out later, perhaps with the Performance version, although it has nothing to do with performance, it would drive sales. Then again, it would drive them away from the Model S.

Thanks for your review. I like reading them from people who also own an S.

But to think that this car is better, or even comparable, to a Model S is IMHO delusional.

It won't be better than a new Model S but in many ways it will be much better than my non-AP classic S -- which I intend to also keep for many of the reasons you state in your review.

 

[voip-ninja]

I’ve had the car for almost 3 years. I see the displays getting better on my friends BMWs... much better PPI and contrast. (Even if the UI isn’t nearly as good.) I’ve upgraded my iPad 3 times during my ownership and the Model S looks and feels like an iPad from 5 years ago. I’m typing this on an iPad Pro now.

Years ago, Elon commented that your tablet and phone shouldn’t be better than the car’s screen. And yet here we are with a 2011 chipset. I was expecting more rapid increases in UI/UX technology over 3 years.

It’s still a good experience but it’s certainly not keeping up with the latest GPU and screen technologies.

What you are describing though is inevitable. It's highly likely that Tesla is focusing the most resources right now on scaling Model 3 production and Model S/X facelift and interior upgrades is something that is also in progress but at a lower priority..... there was a note that they weren't accepting new orders for them after the end of November which strongly indicates a refresh.

Tesla is already rewarding the S/X owners by giving them first crack at their latest car.... the 3 is the car that will make Tesla profitable and as such anyone who has a financial stake in the company would expect them to make it their highest priority.

The real solution to the complaint you have is to make automotive technology modular and upgrade-able so that you don't have to throw a $100,000 sedan on the scrap heap just to get a better tablet stuck to the console... so far, no manufacturer has shown any interest in doing that. Ironically the closest is BMW where you can often upgrade the iDrive guts in older cars to the latest generation without having to do anything too drastic.

 

[aaron0k]

Some of the details aren't quite as refined as the Model S. for instance the charging port is strangely large and awkward looking when extended.

Unfortunately, it sticks up like a flag begging to be vandalized/broken off at a public charger.

 

[Ken7]

I’ve had the car for almost 3 years. I see the displays getting better on my friends BMWs... much better PPI and contrast. (Even if the UI isn’t nearly as good.) I’ve upgraded my iPad 3 times during my ownership and the Model S looks and feels like an iPad from 5 years ago. I’m typing this on an iPad Pro now.

Years ago, Elon commented that your tablet and phone shouldn’t be better than the car’s screen. And yet here we are with a 2011 chipset. I was expecting more rapid increases in UI/UX technology over 3 years.

It’s still a good experience but it’s certainly not keeping up with the latest GPU and screen technologies.

I don't think many people would complain about the resolution of our screen, I really don't. Everyone that sees mine is wowed.

Also, let's not forget, size matters! The BMW screen is not this size.

 

[shokunin]

I agree with what many have already expressed.

The Model 3 is a great car.

Immediate (not subtle) noticeable differences between either of our 2012 and 2013 Model S and Model 3 with 18" aeros.

1- Road Noise, even at 30mph, there is more road and/or tire noise throughout the cabin compared to our previous S's with air and 21" wheels.

2- Suspension/Handling- The 3 (with 18" Michelin MXM4 / aero rims) is taught, nimble, and precise, however, this comes with a more firm, jarring and bumpy ride compared to an S with air and 21's. I like it. I wish my Model P85 was as firm and responsive. I find the air suspension while great for touring, is a very floaty in the Model S.

3- Motor whine - Compared to our RWD Model S's, the 3 has a more immediate motor whine when you accelerate or even if you're just cruising.

4- Rear camera quality/visibility. At night it's almost useless in my driveway backing out. The Model S, while a bit grainy still resolves shadow detail at night.


Differences that are more YMMV..

1- Screen - this has been the most difficult to get used to, I oddly find myself looking around in front of me when all the info is in the center. I miss the energy graphs, trip meters, etc that is on the Model S instrument gauge cluster. The 3 has trip meters but you have to "swipe" to see them.

The screen quality seems better (sharper) and the UX is more responsive than our S, however, I'd personally prefer the angle and layout of the Model S screen. There's no dual layout like in the S. You have maps and then have to hit the music button and/or swipe up or click the up arrow icon to get the music to full screen. Even though the S is less sharp and slower, I'd take the S over 3.

The side to side off angle viewing angle is poor, the screen is noticeably less contrasty and dimmer if you're short like me and sit closer to the steering wheel. I find google maps looks very dark and hard to see but if I sit in the center of the rear seats and look at the screen it's brighter and more or less normal. I wish there was a way to control the gamma or brightness of the maps to compensate for poor off angle viewing.

Glare, I don't have pano roofs on my Model S's but there's quite a bit of glare on the far right hand side the Model 3 screen. The Model 3 screen is glossy compared to the matte finish of the S.

2- Trunk opening/closing. We were spoiled by the power hatch on the Model S. To close the Model 3 trunk takes a lot more force to lock. The hydraulic pistons that raises the trunk seem too stiff and makes closing the trunk more difficult. My previous Lexus if you had the trunk say more than halfway down the momentum and gravity would allow to close on it's own, the model 3 will basically stay static unless you force it down.

3- Seats. They are definitely smaller as well as reasonably comfortable (still need more seat time) but a bit "foamy". I can't describe it, they feel soft yet hard at the same time. The middle back seat feels like there's something beneath the seat. I was sitting in the back center leaned forward and it felt uncomfortable while our Delivery specialist was going over the car.

4- Greenhouse effect. Coming from solid roof Model S's, we don't have the option for a non glass roof in the 3. The inside temps in a SoCal winter of 70+ degrees the inside of the car gets quite warm, warm enough to want to turn the AC on. Tint will be needed for hot, sunny locations.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I don't think many people would complain about the resolution of our screen, I really don't. Everyone that sees mine is wowed.

Can you tell us if you notice a difference between the Model 3 and Model S when viewing the rear camera? The car that we had was <400 VIN and it really looked like a low refresh rate or lower quality camera. The screen itself looked fine for everything else.

 

[Ken7]

Can you tell us if you notice a difference between the Model 3 and Model S when viewing the rear camera? The car that we had was <400 VIN and it really looked like a low refresh rate or lower quality camera. The screen itself looked fine for everything else.

Actually I was talking about the high rez rear camera of the Model S. I haven't had the opportunity to see the rear camera of the 3, but I've only read accounts of its lower resolution.

 

[DennisLevitt]

What shokunin wrote!

I think the point shokunin made about the trunk is very telling. The 3 trunk opens and closes like most cars. Muscle power. Nothing wrong with that. But the S is very elegant and powered. Both when you click and it opens to pushing the button to make it close.

The more time I spend in the 3, the more I notice things like that. It's not that the 3's trunk or frunk are wrong or bad, it's just that the S is superior. Kind of like the difference between a mid-range priced compact car and a very expensive ultra-luxury sedan.

 

[MarkS22]

I don't remember that one but I do remember this:

Tesla Model S to get app support and Chrome by late 2014 (video)

Tesla's Model S to Get Google Chrome And Third-Party Apps

Hah. I’d have to look for it but it was a video of him speaking to a group a few years ago.

 

[Supertester777]

such as..?

Larger trunk and frunk?

 

[Canuck]

Unfortunately, it sticks up like a flag begging to be vandalized/broken off at a public charger.

Actually I was talking about the high rez rear camera of the Model S. I haven't had the opportunity to see the rear camera of the 3, but I've only read accounts of its lower resolution.

I have to manually close the charge port on my S so it will be much better on my 3 for me. Also, the concern with the S charge port is not vandals but people who have accidentally hit an open one while walking by, breaking it, some of who have posted about that here. It looks like the 3 solved that issue. If a vandal wants to damage your car, they don't need a particular type of charge port door. Accidents are much more common than vandals.

As to the rear camera, the resolution is much better on the newer vehicles (I noticed that instantly when I put a loaner in reverse recently) so I won't really notice much of a change when I look at the one in my 3 vs. my S.

But I don't really care a lot about these things, especially having just missed out on AP hardware when I ordered. Coming from experience, it's the big ticket item that will push the 3 over most of the Ss on the road today and that's 2.5 hardware which the 3 has but only S/X has if made after about the middle of 2017. Here's how Tesla tries to downplay 2.5 -- by calling it 2.1 -- but look for the key word...

“The internal name HW 2.5 is an overstatement, and instead it should be called something more like HW 2.1. This hardware set has some added computing and wiring redundancy, which very slightly improves reliability, but it does not have an additional Pascal GPU.”

"redundancy" -- both computing and wiring! How can Tesla downplay that? In my view, you're never going to get FSD regulatory approval without that key "redundancy" -- since regulators need backup systems as fail safes. Now, if you have AP2.0 and think that's breach of contract, I don't know about that -- read your contract about what you agreed to with FSD when you bought --- which is that is was subject to regulatory approval. So Tesla has covered its arse.

Now here's the kicker:

The [Tesla] spokesperson also said that all Model S, Model X, and Model 3 vehicles being ordered today come with the new hardware.

So when it comes to looking at the differences between a Model S and a Model 3, the model 3 will be vastly superior to any S built before about the middle of last year, or at least it appears to have the potential to be, in my view.