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Two reports of Teslas on AP hitting stopped vehicles in their lane on the freeway

CharleyBC

Active Member
Jun 28, 2019
1,382
1,559
Talent, OR
Then why does it cost twice as much to insure a Tesla than any other sedan or compact?. Model 3 cost double the insurance premium than my 2018 accord.
That wasn’t true for us. The Model 3 was a small increment over the 20-year-old Honda it replaced. And considering one was worth $55K and the other maybe $2K, that seemed a good deal. The USAA rep said that Tesla’s safety features and near-impossibility to steal both reduce risk, reflected in premiums.
 

Bladerskb

Senior Software Engineer
Oct 24, 2016
2,200
2,498
Michigan
I hadn't read about that one in Russia. Being in Russia, there don't seem to be a lot of details about the actual incident or the state of the firmware on the car - not sure if Tesla updates cars that are exported to markets they don't officially serve?

Now you're just making excuses. There are hundreds of these incidents. Most are not reported.
Case in point, here is one today.

 

tvad

Member
Jun 30, 2019
979
972
California
There is no debate or question as to whether AP was on or not.
If the driver touched the brake pedal while turning to check on his/her dog, then AutoPilot would disengage. The driver may have touched the brake pedal, but have been unaware of this action, and therefore assumed AutoPilot was on at the time of the collision. The computer's log will confirm AutoPilot engaged or disengaged.

From p.82 of the Model 3 Manual:
"Canceling and Resuming -
To manually cancel Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, move the gear lever up and release or press the brake pedal."
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,217
7,007
Delaware
Now you're just making excuses. There are hundreds of these incidents. Most are not reported.
Case in point, here is one today.


How does this video have anything to do with the discussion?

No cars that are already stopped being revealed in it, no collision, and it sure doesn’t behave like any car on AP that I’ve seen.
 

Nexus7

Member
Jul 9, 2018
24
13
Santa Barbara, CA
Then why does it cost twice as much to insure a Tesla than any other sedan or compact?. Model 3 cost double the insurance premium than my 2018 accord.
The increased cost has been associated on the expense to repair the vehicle if it were in an accident, mainly due to the aluminum panels and unique construction.
 

user212_nr

Active Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,407
741
US

"Semiautonomous driving systems are designed to ignore unmoving obstacles because otherwise, they couldn't work at all." - Either this is non-sesnse, or Tesla will not be able to achieve FSD with current hardware.

I suspect that this problem can be solved, but it is very concerning that they have had more than 1 year to solve this problem and yet they have not. True, this crash resulted only in minor injuries, but its hard to imagine that Tesla has not tried to make this a top priority to fix, and failed.
 

TydalForce

Member
Nov 24, 2019
229
158
West Chester, PA, USA
Not all adaptive cruise control systems are the same.

You're thinking of systems that rely predominately on Radar, but the Subaru system isn't radar based. Instead its a Stereo Camera based system that doesn't have any issue detecting stopped cars.

What I'd love to see if a shoot out between Tesla HW2.5 vehicles, and Subarus with eyesight to see which ones will stop for a suddenly revealed stop car. Like when the driver in the car in front of suddenly changes lanes and reveals a stopped car.

My money would be on the Subaru system.

EyeSight on my Impreza is good, but the auto-braking has fired (and not fired) in ways that surprise me sometimes.
 

Bladerskb

Senior Software Engineer
Oct 24, 2016
2,200
2,498
Michigan

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,580
7,382
Visalia, CA
...he's responsible...

I thought the cause was because of the dog. If there's no dog, that particular police cruiser would be spared for that particular timeline :)

...Question is, why did the car crash into the parked cruiser?...

That's because Tesla and other car manufacturers are still using the proven unreliable radar system for stopping for a stationary obstacle, especially at a high speed.

The radar system has been invented before World War II and no one has been able to perfect this inability to distinguish which is a harmless object and which is a very dangerous stationary obstacle for the past century.

Year after year, people keep thinking that the radar would be able to do that very "soon".

Luckily, Tesla has found an alternative with its cameras. It's just a matter of time to train software to use the cameras for the reliability of avoiding crashing into stationary obstacles.

Hopefully, that "time" is not just like the century old radar "time" too!
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
12,966
38,499
Michigan
Tesla Model 3 slams into police cruiser while on Autopilot

Obviously, driver should've paid attention the whole time, because ultimately he's responsible.
Question is, why did the car crash into the parked cruiser?

Moving the steering wheel while turned around messing with dog would disable Autopilot and put the car into traffic aware cruise control mode. The Tesla hit two cars and was still going (slowly) after the impacts. Automatic Emergency Braking disables TACC but will not stop the car..

From the manual:

Canceling Autosteer
Autosteer cancels when:
•You start steering manually.
•You press the brake pedal.
•The maximum speed that Autosteer supports–90 mph (150 km/h)–is exceeded.
•You move the gear lever upwards.
•A door is opened.
•An Automatic Emergency Braking event occurs (see Collision Avoidance Assist on page 102).

When Autosteer cancels, it sounds chimes and the Autosteer icon either turns gray to indicate that Autosteer is no longer active, or disappears to indicate that it is not currently available.

Note: If Autosteer cancels because you started steering manually, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control remains active. Disengage Traffic-Aware Cruise Control as you normally would, by moving the gear lever upward or pressing the brake pedal
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,394
6,117
Snohomish, WA
Now you're just making excuses. There are hundreds of these incidents. Most are not reported.
Case in point, here is one today.


Posting a video completely out of context of what's happening doesn't do either side any good. Plus the post is about stopped objects, and nothing about that video has to do with stopped objects. You could have described what was going on, and why you felt like it was related but you didn't. You could have simply said that Tesla struggles with localization of an object so objects that are on the side of the road are sometimes not seen, and ignored.

Edit: In a separate post you did include the context which the author clearly described what was happening.

Autopilot accelerates towards stopping vehicles! : teslamotors
 
Last edited:

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,394
6,117
Snohomish, WA
EyeSight on my Impreza is good, but the auto-braking has fired (and not fired) in ways that surprise me sometimes.

Which model year?

One issue with EyeSight is they have lots of versions of it over the years, but everyone simply knows it as Eyesight. So it's hard to distinguish between what happened with a later version, and a previous version.
 

electronblue

Active Member
Oct 1, 2018
2,325
2,410
Earth
I thought the cause was because of the dog. If there's no dog, that particular police cruiser would be spared for that particular timeline :)



That's because Tesla and other car manufacturers are still using the proven unreliable radar system for stopping for a stationary obstacle, especially at a high speed.

The radar system has been invented before World War II and no one has been able to perfect this inability to distinguish which is a harmless object and which is a very dangerous stationary obstacle for the past century.

Year after year, people keep thinking that the radar would be able to do that very "soon".

Luckily, Tesla has found an alternative with its cameras. It's just a matter of time to train software to use the cameras for the reliability of avoiding crashing into stationary obstacles.

Hopefully, that "time" is not just like the century old radar "time" too!

You make it sound like Tesla is somehow ahead of the pack in visual crash avoidance. In actual fact, they are behind the pack. Many other manufacturers have visual stopped vehicle avoidance at a level significantly more reliable than Tesla.
 

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