Type 2 “rapid” chargers and Chademo adaptors

[Couscous19]

I recently got hit by the cold weather in a long journeyand didn’t quite have enough to make it to the supercharger. We used Ecotricity and CYC rapid charging points to grab the extra bit of juice but found thecharging to be crazy slow using the type 2 tethered available.

At both sites we only got 12 kW and 16 amps. I thought I had dual chargers (2014 used model S85) and thus we’d get ~22kW. Am I missing something?

I have wondered if getting a chademo adapter isworthwhile but at 400 odd quid it seems hard to justify. Is there a way to buy one 2nd hand one for less? Is there any specific “version” of the adaptor I need?

 

[arg]

At both sites we only got 12 kW and 16 amps. I thought I had dual chargers (2014 used model S85) and thus we’d get ~22kW. Am I missing something?

Something is wrong there. If using the type2 on a rapid, and your car has dual chargers enabled, then you should be seeing 22kW.

How do you know if your car has dual chargers? Note that all UK Model S pre-facelift were built with dual chargers physically present, but the second one disabled unless you had paid for it.

Most likely is that your seller misrepresented the dual chargers when you bought the car; another possibility is that the car configuration got messed up and Tesla need to correct it.

I have wondered if getting a chademo adapter isworthwhile but at 400 odd quid it seems hard to justify. Is there a way to buy one 2nd hand one for less? Is there any specific “version” of the adaptor I need?

They pop up on eBay from time to time - here is one that's live at the moment:

Tesla Type 2 (Mennekes) adapter for CHadeMO chargers | eBay

For a 2014 car, any version of the CHAdeMO adapter should be OK (facelift cars need more care).

 

[WannabeOwner]

I have wondered if getting a chademo adapter isworthwhile but at 400 odd quid it seems hard to justify

I've used mine twice in nearly 2 years ...

... 50% the speed of Supercharger so happy with that ...

... I used Man maths so it wasn't expensive - bought it with the car, originally, along with special paint and all that jazz, so kinda not a painful purchase (compared to a one-off later buy ...)

Only time I have used Type-2 was when I was parked up for HOURS.

haven't had a "not enough to reach destination due to bad weather" and been forced to extra-slow-charge, but I'd probably only need one of those events to decide CHAdeMO was worthwhile! Last weekend Wife used CAHdeMO to extra-charge before starting journey because weather was foul and she was worried might not have enough juice for original Plan-A (which was a Supercharger close to max range)

... but when I bought my car far fewer superchargers, and 2 years from now there will be far more, so the time-to-buy will pass soon, if not already. Or we will all be buying the predicted CCS adaptor

 

[WannabeOwner]

If using the type2 on a rapid, and your car has dual chargers enabled, then you should be seeing 22kW.

Exclude ignorance, but am I right that for that I'd need to be plugged into the A/C hose on the Rapid Charger Cabinet (which would have CHAdeMO/Other rapid charger cables), and if I plugged into a Type-2-only post, next to that cabinet, am I right in thinking that might NOT have 22kW?

Certainly when I've just found a Type-2-only post out in the wild I have only got 16AMPs, same as home ... 22MPH. ... but I only have single-charger, maybe double-charger folk (and other Marques?) get more?

You mentioned, in another thread

AC on rapid chargers causes all sorts of confusion and argument; fortunately, now that Renault have given up on rapid AC it will become a thing of the past.

I may have read more into that than I should. Is there any problem using A/C on Rapid Charge cabinet? Or just that 3-hoses-on-one-cabinet with the corresponding forest of buttons and menu options is confusing for users?

 

[arg]

Confusion isn't helped by the industry having picked "Fast" to mean "damn slow" and "Rapid" to mean "Normally moderately fast, but might not be; if it's DC it still qualifies as Rapid even so".

When I said "If using the type2 on a rapid" I was meaning the AC output on what is otherwise a "Rapid" charger with DC capability - usually the third hose, occasionally a type2 socket on a machine that has two DC hoses. I'm fairly sure this is what the OP was talking about.

These are usually 63A three-phase (so theoretically capable of 44kW), but Tesla vehicles can't use the full capacity on AC. For Model S/X plugged into such a supply you will get:

• 11kW (older car, single charger). Might go as high as 12kW if the voltage is high. Approx 33MPH.
  
• 22kW (older car, dual charger). Might go as high as 23-24kW if the voltage is high. Approx 66MPH.
  
• 11kW (facelift car, software locked, from early facelift production if 'upgraded charger' not paid for). Approx 33MPH.
  
• 16kW (facelift car, current production and earlier ones if you paid for the upgrade). Approx 48MPH.

At such a charger, you would do much better with the CHAdeMO adapter, giving a theoretical maximum of 48kW but more commonly around 40kW, so somewhere from twice as fast to four times as fast as using the AC.

Separately from 'Rapid' chargers, there are the so-called "fast" public chargepoints with type2 socket.

If you find one with 22kW capability (32A three-phase), then you will get the same numbers as above (ie. the car is still the limitation rather than the chargepoint). There are a moderate number of such points in the UK.

The majority of type2 chargepoints in the UK are 32A, single-phase (same as what most of us have at home), so will give 7kW to any UK-spec Model S/X (ie. the limitation is the chargepoint rather than the car).

You also occasionally find 16A single-phase, sometimes in the form of a post with two sockets that will give 32A to one car or 16A if both sockets are in use. That gives only 3.6kW, (11MPH).

Certainly when I've just found a Type-2-only post out in the wild I have only got 16AMPs, same as home ... 22MPH.

I think you are mis-remembering here. If you get 22MPH at home, that's almost certainly 32A single-phase = 7kW. That's also the most common thing to find at UK public chargepoints.

If you get 16A in the UK, it's almost always single phase and so only 11MPH.

On the continent (Netherlands especially), you may find type2 public posts with 16A three-phase, so give you 11kW, 33MPH (again, any variety of Model S/X can use the whole capacity). I've never seen one of those in the UK.

Tesla destination charging however comes in a wide variety of powers from 3kW up to 22kW, sometimes shared between multiple connectors, sometimes full power to each unit. These are type2 tethered cables (the same hardware as is sold for home installation, capable of being configured in many different ways).

 

[arg]

Is there any problem using A/C on Rapid Charge cabinet? Or just that 3-hoses-on-one-cabinet with the corresponding forest of buttons and menu options is confusing for users?

The main problems with using AC on a Rapid Charge cabinet are:

• It's not actually rapid unless you have a specific sub-model of Renault Zoe. So the speed is likely to lead to disappointment.
• You will be tying up a scarce resource (as above, for a long period) to the annoyance of other users. The better designed versions of these units allow both the AC and one of the DC hoses to be used simultaneously, but the majority of the ones installed in the UK do not have that feature, and there's never any labeling to tell you so.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I think you are mis-remembering here. If you get 22MPH at home, that's almost certainly 32A single-phase = 7kW. That's also the most common thing to find at UK public chargepoints

Yes, mis-remembered, sorry. Checked and TeslaFi says 32AMPs both home and work (3-Phase at work, but duct to car park was too narrow )

Given I was thinking 16AMPs, that did not seem like a large percentage of my 100AMP Household Fuse. At 32AMPs it becomes a more significant proportion ... I've got two wacking great big immersions on the 5000L accumulator - so we we can limp along if the (log) boiler fails ... never had to use them, yet ... but best not to charge the car at the same time! (Sparky said "turn everything in the house off if you need to use them" ... )