Typical Range Degradation on M3 LR?

[DWreck1995]

Hello everyone,

I just bought my first Tesla last week. A 2020 Model 3 Long Range with 30k miles. Upon taking delivery, I did my first mistake and stopped by a Supercharger to set the maximum charge to 100% in order to see what range it would estimate on a full charge.

270 miles. I understand that mileage is lost over time and whatnot. But I'll say I was a bit shocked that in 3 years and 30k miles it had lost over 50 miles of range (322 miles new).

So, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light and provide a sanity check for me. Is this average degradation or is it accelerated to an extent?

 

[AS9.9.]

I own a used 2020 M3 LR as well.

At 100% I am at about 280 miles, not the greatest. No doubt I could get better range without the 19" sport wheels, but the Aeros are too ugly for me. What wheels do you have right now? If you have Aero wheels and are getting 270 at 100% that sounds odd to me.

 

[E90alex]

The BMS could be out of calibration and/or cells are imbalanced. You can try following suggestions like this site to balance the cells and calibrate the BMS. Tesla battery management system (BMS) calibration

In the long term, best practice for battery health and least degradation is to set charge limit as low as possible (enough to get through your typical day without inconveniencing yourself) and charge daily. Personally I set mine to 50% and that’s more than enough to last me 3+ days, but I still charge daily to 50%.

 

[DWreck1995]

I own a used 2020 M3 LR as well.

At 100% I am at about 280 miles, not the greatest. No doubt I could get better range without the 19" sport wheels, but the Aeros are too ugly for me. What wheels do you have right now? If you have Aero wheels and are getting 270 at 100% that sounds odd to me.

I do have the 19" wheels. But I didn't know they caused the computer to display a lower range? I thought it would just make the computer less accurate at guessing the range.

How many miles does your M3 have?

The BMS could be out of calibration and/or cells are imbalanced. You can try following suggestions like this site to balance the cells and calibrate the BMS. Tesla battery management system (BMS) calibration

In the long term, best practice for battery health and least degradation is to set charge limit as low as possible (enough to get through your typical day without inconveniencing yourself) and charge daily. Personally I set mine to 50% and that’s more than enough to last me 3+ days, but I still charge daily to 50%.

I'll give this a try and see how it goes. I do plan on lowering the charge limit. I hadn't really thought about lowering it to match daily drives though. I suppose that would work well since I can just plug it in at the end of the day. Thanks for the tip!

 

[DuncanM]

I do have the 19" wheels. But I didn't know they caused the computer to display a lower range? I thought it would just make the computer less accurate at guessing the range.

You should set the actual tire and wheel cover specs into the computer; when you update the specs you can see the impact that the various options make on range.

IIRC, the 322 mile EPA range was with the 18in wheels with aerowheel covers.

 

[bobw]

Does the range calculation also depend upon the recent Wh/mile? The range decreases if you flog it.

 

[E90alex]

Does the range calculation also depend upon the recent Wh/mile? The range decreases if you flog it.

The number at the top of the screen next to the battery icon is only rated range and does not account for driving habits or conditions. It’s purely the best case scenario number based on the EPA rating.

 

[DWreck1995]

You should set the actual tire and wheel cover specs into the computer; when you update the specs you can see the impact that the various options make on range.

IIRC, the 322 mile EPA range was with the 18in wheels with aerowheel covers.

I see. I did find it interesting that on the Tesla Used Inventory website (which is where I bought it), the 2020 models didn't list a lower ranges when they had the 19" wheels on them as apposed to the 18" ones. They do list different ranges for the newer years.

I wonder what the range was when new with the 19" wheels?

 

[zoomer0056]

Unless my math is wrong that is 26% capacity loss. Under waranty, you get a new battery if it falls to >30% loss of capacity in 8 years.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

. But I didn't know they caused the computer to display a lower range?

It doesn’t for this vehicle. Only 2020 Performance to my knowledge.

Does the range calculation also depend upon the recent Wh/mile?

No effect (on the number next to the battery symbol).

Unless my math is wrong that is 26% capacity loss

Your math is wrong. 270/322.

The display is a direct measure of energy available. You just have to know how the units work.

Is this average degradation or is it accelerated to an extent?

This 14% loss is slightly worse than average. Normal would be about 7-10% in San Diego. No idea where the car has lived. If Phoenix, that could make things worse.

Remember it is an estimate (the best in the world for your pack and the only number that matters). But it could go up and down several percent in response to use or software updates. It can also sometimes be extremely stable.

Just keep it at 55% for a while if that works for you and see what happens. Or don’t worry about it.

Loss will be very slow from here most likely.

 

[zoomer0056]

Your math is wrong. 270/322

You're correct for a 16% loss of capacity.

 

[SalisburySam]

My 2018 M3 LR RWD has supposedly 310 miles of range new, then upped to 325, now 295. Pretty happy about that part of the car.

 

[DuncanM]

I see. I did find it interesting that on the Tesla Used Inventory website (which is where I bought it), the 2020 models didn't list a lower ranges when they had the 19" wheels on them as apposed to the 18" ones. They do list different ranges for the newer years.

I wonder what the range was when new with the 19" wheels?

On the 2023 RWD, choosing the 19in wheels w/o aero wheelcovers drops range from 272 to 267 miles.
However, here's the EPA data on various 2020 M3s:

Compare Side-by-Side

Compare the MPG of cars and trucks side-by-side. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of new and used cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

choosing the 19in wheels w/o aero wheelcovers drops range from 272 to 267 miles.

You do not mean on the vehicle display itself though, right?

On the Tesla website, you can see that only the 272mi number is from EPA testing.

So presumably no effect in the vehicle.

2020 (for the Performance) was unique in that way. Which is why wheels selected change the displayed range.

 

[DuncanM]

You do not mean on the vehicle display itself though, right?

On the Tesla website, you can see that only the 272mi number is from EPA testing.

So presumably no effect in the vehicle.

2020 (for the Performance) was unique in that way. Which is why wheels selected change the displayed range.

View attachment 924651
View attachment 924652

If you select 19in wheels in the 2022 M3 RWD car's settings, it will drop the displayed range on the upper left of the screen.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If you select 19in wheels in the 2022 M3 RWD car's settings, it will drop the displayed range on the upper left of the screen.

Good to know, thanks. Would be good to see some quick pics of this for documentation.

I’m not aware of other vehicles that do this (other than 2020 Performance) though I have no way to verify, so rely on people showing it…

I previously thought it required an EPA test from Tesla (though of course there is no such regulatory requirement - figured it was internal), but seems not.

 

[DWreck1995]

It doesn’t for this vehicle. Only 2020 Performance to my knowledge.

No effect (on the number next to the battery symbol).

Your math is wrong. 270/322.

The display is a direct measure of energy available. You just have to know how the units work.


This 14% loss is slightly worse than average. Normal would be about 7-10% in San Diego. No idea where the car has lived. If Phoenix, that could make things worse.

Remember it is an estimate (the best in the world for your pack and the only number that matters). But it could go up and down several percent in response to use or software updates. It can also sometimes be extremely stable.

Just keep it at 55% for a while if that works for you and see what happens. Or don’t worry about it.

Loss will be very slow from here most likely.

Thanks for the confirmation. It's nice to know that it's not that far over average degradation. Hopefully it has leveled off or will level off soon.

My 2018 M3 LR RWD has supposedly 310 miles of range new, then upped to 325, now 295. Pretty happy about that part of the car.

That's pretty great. I suppose you got a good one!

On the 2023 RWD, choosing the 19in wheels w/o aero wheelcovers drops range from 272 to 267 miles.
However, here's the EPA data on various 2020 M3s:

Compare Side-by-Side

Compare the MPG of cars and trucks side-by-side. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of new and used cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

Thanks for this.

 

[ytsejam02]

I also just purchased a M3 LR, albeit a 2019. So max range was 310 new. It had 29k miles on it. When I brought it home and charged to 90%, the estimated mileage was 248, at 100% the math would make it 275 miles. I then grabbed the app Tessie on a trial and it noted the usable battery is 67.2 kW.

I know this is all estimates, but this is my first EV, so I decided to look at the total amount of miles I've driven, and then amount of charge I've put into the car.

This morning, I've put in 58 kW, and driven 256 miles. That's ~4.4 miles/kw. If I assume the usable battery of 67.2, that's a total of ~296 miles.

The lesson I'm learning is that just like ICE cars that give estimated miles remaining, it's not accurate. In fact, most times in an ICE when I did mileage the old fashioned way (divide miles from tip by the # of gallons), I was always below the estimated car mileage.

So far in the M3, the real world mileage seems to be above, albeit by quite a bit. Hopefully my logic is sound, and hopefully my experience helps at all.

 

[AAKEE]

I also just purchased a M3 LR, albeit a 2019. So max range was 310 new. It had 29k miles on it. When I brought it home and charged to 90%, the estimated mileage was 248, at 100% the math would make it 275 miles. I then grabbed the app Tessie on a trial and it noted the usable battery is 67.2 kW.

The Tessie capacity is not the [useable] capacity as we normaly refer to that term.
67.2 is the total amount of kWh it can hold, including the buffer.
Tessie use a term that is somewhat accepted to mean [excluding buffer] but in this case it means [including the buffer].
This isnt really good to fool people.

When new, this har had 499km/310 mi until about 76kWh total capacity.
76000/499 = 152 Wh/ km

275 miles = 442km.
442 x 152 = 67.2kWh.

So Tessie and the BMS is on speaking terms about the total capacity.

I dont know the climate in Connecticut but assuming a average climate and perhaps a cell temp average of 25C for 4 years and normal charging behaviour (often parked at some 70-90%), we should expect about 10-11% degradation from calendar aging and a few perfent maximum from cycles, so 11-13% loss or so more is what to expect (assuming average temperstures and average charging behavoiur).

Original capacity was 77.8kWh, so that set us to expect about the 67.2 kWh you see or maybe slightly higher.
The BMS is not always perfectly on track so sometimes thecar show less range than the ”real”. Anyway, it looks normal from the assumed average climate/use.

This morning, I've put in 58 kW, and driven 256 miles. That's ~4.4 miles/kw. If I assume the usable battery of 67.2, that's a total of ~296 miles.

The lesson I'm learning is that just like ICE cars that give estimated miles remaining, it's not accurate. In fact, most times in an ICE when I did mileage the old fashioned way (divide miles from tip by the # of gallons), I was always below the estimated car mileage.

The range at the battery is not estimated true range, it is in practical terms the range if the car is driven exactly like the EPA test, in the same temperature and the same speed.
That range does not change depending on driving behaviour etc.

 

[ytsejam02]

That range does not change depending on driving behaviour etc.

Thanks for the info! I still have a lot to learn, but you've confirmed a number of things I was assuming.

One question, sorry, when you say "that range does not change..." which one are you referring to? I'm referring to setting the charging limit where it says how many miles that will give me. That seems to change a little bit, but again, I've only had the car for 2 weeks, so not much experience yet.

Again, thx!