Typical Range Degradation on M3 LR?

[DWreck1995]

Hello everyone,

I just bought my first Tesla last week. A 2020 Model 3 Long Range with 30k miles. Upon taking delivery, I did my first mistake and stopped by a Supercharger to set the maximum charge to 100% in order to see what range it would estimate on a full charge.

270 miles. I understand that mileage is lost over time and whatnot. But I'll say I was a bit shocked that in 3 years and 30k miles it had lost over 50 miles of range (322 miles new).

So, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light and provide a sanity check for me. Is this average degradation or is it accelerated to an extent?

 

[AAKEE]

The range shown st the battery symbol, like this:

That range is not adaptive. Doesn’t matter if you drive like you stole it or like grandma, it will still show the same range for the same energy content.
So a full charge, assuming no degradation/change in capacity will show the same range.

Its really a energy meter, scaled in km or mi.

My car shows 1km for each 152Wh that is remaining in the battery (theres also a 4.5% buffer below 0km).

So if the ”fuel tank” is half, it always shows half of the full range.

 

[danarcha]

Unless my math is wrong that is 26% capacity loss. Under waranty, you get a new battery if it falls to >30% loss of capacity in 8 years.

Based on what I have read on this board, Tesla doesn’t give you a new battery. They can give you a refurbished one that has range >70% of what your vehicle’s original range was. That’s not nothing but don’t expect a brand new battery if yours meets the warranty criteria for replacement.

 

[ytsejam02]

The range shown st the battery symbol, like this:
View attachment 930012

That range is not adaptive. Doesn’t matter if you drive like you stole it or like grandma, it will still show the same range for the same energy content.
So a full charge, assuming no degradation/change in capacity will show the same range.

Its really a energy meter, scaled in km or mi.

My car shows 1km for each 152Wh that is remaining in the battery (theres also a 4.5% buffer below 0km).

So if the ”fuel tank” is half, it always shows half of the full range.

Ah, that is great to know, thank you. I didn't realize that would be static.

I find basic math to be the best real world mileage reading. Simple enough to take the total mileage I've driven and divide it by the total kW charged.

So far they indicate a decent amount of more real world mileage. I've charged 65 kWh, and driven 296 miles for an average of 4.55 miles/kWh. I'm happy with that number!

 

[Rocky_H]

Based on what I have read on this board, Tesla doesn’t give you a new battery.

This part is true.

They can give you a refurbished one that has range >70% of what your vehicle’s original range was.

This part is close. The warranty wording is not to just meet 70%. It says they will give you one that has at least the capacity yours had at the time of the failure. So if someone had a car that was degraded only down to 85% of original capacity and failed, they would need to provide one that was about at that 85% level, not just at least 70%.

 

[Bobo818]

I purchased a Model 3 long range in Feb 2022 and fully charged to 341 vs 356. I do not charge everyday as I do not have to drive very far for errands.should I plug it in everyday?

 

[Rice&Curry]

No need to do a full change everyday. As a best practice for longer battery life, limit your charge to 70-80% unless you need the higher charge due to your travel plans. If your daily travel is 50 miles then 60-70% charge is sufficient., You can set that up in your App and the car will only charge to the limit you have set up on a daily basis or occasionally based on your commute schedule. Occasional full charge for travel necessity is OK but should be avoided unless it is necessary.

 

[Bobo818]

No need to do a full change everyday. As a best practice for longer battery life, limit your charge to 70-80% unless you need the higher charge due to your travel plans. If your daily travel is 50 miles then 60-70% charge is sufficient., You can set that up in your App and the car will only charge to the limit you have set up on a daily basis or occasionally based on your commute schedule. Occasional full charge for travel necessity is OK but should be avoided unless it is necessary.

Thank you!!

 

[AAKEE]

No need to do a full change everyday. As a best practice for longer battery life, limit your charge to 70-80% unless you need the higher charge due to your travel plans. If your daily travel is 50 miles then 60-70% charge is sufficient., You can set that up in your App and the car will only charge to the limit you have set up on a daily basis or occasionally based on your commute schedule. Occasional full charge for travel necessity is OK but should be avoided unless it is necessary.

Oh, no!

80% is most probably the worst SOC to use. In some cases worse than 100%.

The baby-by-80% is a myth

This chart shows actual Tesla Model S cells taken out of a 6 months old model S.
In this case, 80% was worse than 100%.

This is Panasonic 18650 NCA cells, as close as you get without doing like above:

We can see that 80% is worse than 100%, this time also.

This is 2170 NCA cells of a non disclosed brand:

As there are not very many 2170 brands with NCA chemistry, it is a good chance the actually used panasonic 2170.

I bought 35 pieces of Panasonic 2170 and from my tests, I did get redults very similar to the second from above research graph.

There are a lot more research reports testing Panasonic NCA cells, closely related to the cells Tesla use.
This one do not show that 80% worse than 100%. On the other hand, 80% and 100% is more or less as bad (or good if you like).
We can see that staying at 55% or lower is reducing the calendar aging by half.
Shortening the time above 55% to a minimum, or avoiding completely will reduce the degradation rate to half.

Thank you!!

First of all, if you follow the Tesla advice to charge below 90% (thats 50-89%) for daily driving the battery will be fine.

But it will not have the lowest degradation.

I suggest you follow this advice if you like to reduce the degradation:

-Charge often
-Do not charge more than needed until next charge (which is soon as per the above statement).
-Charge late. Calendar aging is the dominant degradation factor and shortening the time at high SOC will reduce degradation.

The lower the SOC, down to 0% SOC, the less degradation. The largest single win is by having the battery on the lower side of 55%. (This statement means - low SOC is really good - 80% is not really good)

Low SOC, below 20% or below 10%, is good. It is not bad for the battery at all - that’s a myth.

100% SOC is not as bad for the battery as the forum myth says. You do not need to drive asap as the degradation is about the same as at 80%. But as there is no reason to have the car parked long time at 100%, you should not leave it like that. You should not leave it at 80% either as it is about as ”bad” as 100%.

This is my M3P after 2 1/2 years, 64.000 km (like 40K mi). The blue line = my car
Green= the average other M3P that use teslafi.
I use 55% as the daily charging level.
I charge every day.
I charge late, somthe charge is finished shortly before the drive.

My car has used really low SOC a lot.
Usually parked at work for one week at the time with about 7-20%.

 

[Bobo818]

Oh, no!

80% is most probably the worst SOC to use. In some cases worse than 100%.

The baby-by-80% is a myth

This chart shows actual Tesla Model S cells taken out of a 6 months old model S.
In this case, 80% was worse than 100%.
View attachment 947342

This is Panasonic 18650 NCA cells, as close as you get without doing like above:

View attachment 947343
We can see that 80% is worse than 100%, this time also.

This is 2170 NCA cells of a non disclosed brand:
View attachment 947344
As there are not very many 2170 brands with NCA chemistry, it is a good chance the actually used panasonic 2170.

I bought 35 pieces of Panasonic 2170 and from my tests, I did get redults very similar to the second from above research graph.

There are a lot more research reports testing Panasonic NCA cells, closely related to the cells Tesla use.
This one do not show that 80% worse than 100%. On the other hand, 80% and 100% is more or less as bad (or good if you like).
We can see that staying at 55% or lower is reducing the calendar aging by half.
Shortening the time above 55% to a minimum, or avoiding completely will reduce the degradation rate to half.
View attachment 947349


First of all, if you follow the Tesla advice to charge below 90% (thats 50-89%) for daily driving the battery will be fine.

But it will not have the lowest degradation.

I suggest you follow this advice if you like to reduce the degradation:

-Charge often
-Do not charge more than needed until next charge (which is soon as per the above statement).
-Charge late. Calendar aging is the dominant degradation factor and shortening the time at high SOC will reduce degradation.

The lower the SOC, down to 0% SOC, the less degradation. The largest single win is by having the battery on the lower side of 55%. (This statement means - low SOC is really good - 80% is not really good)

Low SOC, below 20% or below 10%, is good. It is not bad for the battery at all - that’s a myth.

100% SOC is not as bad for the battery as the forum myth says. You do not need to drive asap as the degradation is about the same as at 80%. But as there is no reason to have the car parked long time at 100%, you should not leave it like that. You should not leave it at 80% either as it is about as ”bad” as 100%.

This is my M3P after 2 1/2 years, 64.000 km (like 40K mi). The blue line = my car
Green= the average other M3P that use teslafi.
I use 55% as the daily charging level.
I charge every day.
I charge late, somthe charge is finished shortly before the drive.
View attachment 947360

My car has used really low SOC a lot.
Usually parked at work for one week at the time with about 7-20%.

Thank you this is really helpful as I plan to have my car for many years!

 

[Hiline]

Oh, no!

80% is most probably the worst SOC to use. In some cases worse than 100%.

The baby-by-80% is a myth

This chart shows actual Tesla Model S cells taken out of a 6 months old model S.
In this case, 80% was worse than 100%.
View attachment 947342

This is Panasonic 18650 NCA cells, as close as you get without doing like above:

View attachment 947343
We can see that 80% is worse than 100%, this time also.

This is 2170 NCA cells of a non disclosed brand:
View attachment 947344
As there are not very many 2170 brands with NCA chemistry, it is a good chance the actually used panasonic 2170.

I bought 35 pieces of Panasonic 2170 and from my tests, I did get redults very similar to the second from above research graph.

There are a lot more research reports testing Panasonic NCA cells, closely related to the cells Tesla use.
This one do not show that 80% worse than 100%. On the other hand, 80% and 100% is more or less as bad (or good if you like).
We can see that staying at 55% or lower is reducing the calendar aging by half.
Shortening the time above 55% to a minimum, or avoiding completely will reduce the degradation rate to half.
View attachment 947349


First of all, if you follow the Tesla advice to charge below 90% (thats 50-89%) for daily driving the battery will be fine.

But it will not have the lowest degradation.

I suggest you follow this advice if you like to reduce the degradation:

-Charge often
-Do not charge more than needed until next charge (which is soon as per the above statement).
-Charge late. Calendar aging is the dominant degradation factor and shortening the time at high SOC will reduce degradation.

The lower the SOC, down to 0% SOC, the less degradation. The largest single win is by having the battery on the lower side of 55%. (This statement means - low SOC is really good - 80% is not really good)

Low SOC, below 20% or below 10%, is good. It is not bad for the battery at all - that’s a myth.

100% SOC is not as bad for the battery as the forum myth says. You do not need to drive asap as the degradation is about the same as at 80%. But as there is no reason to have the car parked long time at 100%, you should not leave it like that. You should not leave it at 80% either as it is about as ”bad” as 100%.

This is my M3P after 2 1/2 years, 64.000 km (like 40K mi). The blue line = my car
Green= the average other M3P that use teslafi.
I use 55% as the daily charging level.
I charge every day.
I charge late, somthe charge is finished shortly before the drive.
View attachment 947360

My car has used really low SOC a lot.
Usually parked at work for one week at the time with about 7-20%.

Just curious, can you expand the odometer range for comparison vehicles? Your sample size of 8 is quite small.

Also, I think your approach can be summarized as: keep the car at as low SoC for as long as possible.

 

[AAKEE]

it doesnt really change the curve of the comparison vehicles.
With these settings is is 445 vehicles in the graph, at my ODO varying between 35-45 vehicles.