U-Joint Problems

[Max*]

As I was pulling out of my driveway, I experienced a similar problem as someone in this thread. The steering feels "loose" then "tight" depending on the angle of how I'm turning the steering wheel. It's almost as if the steering is sticking in certain places. I thought maybe I'm imagining it, but it's day 2, and the steering is definitely not normal.

My car is a 2015 70D with 64k mlies on it. I had the steering recall performed by Tesla (where they put in the 5 steel bolts) in July @ 60k miles.

Before they performed the recall, everything was perfect. Due to it being 4k miles and 3 months after the recall, I'm hesitant to assume the recall had anything to do with my current issues, but I guess anything is possible. Anyone else have steering problems AFTER doing the recall?


I'm going to take out the frunk liner and take a look, how can I tell that the bolts are different than the original ones and is this something I can fix on my own? I assume if I bring to Tesla, they'll just want to put in a new steering rack for $2,500+?

 

[Brass Guy]

The recall stated that if there was any sign of corrosion or broken bolts, the rack would be replaced; otherwise just the bolts. I imagine a rack replacement would be their response.
I have not had any steering issues since the recall was performed.
IIRC if they replaced the bolts they used some sealant on them. My original rack had none.
Since this was done under the recall, Tesla ought to cover this unless it's a different failure, like the motor going bad. You can replace the bolts yourself if it comes to that, the size is in post 1.

 

[Max*]

Thanks @Brass Guy, I don't see any visible sealant on the outside of the bolts.

I have some green tape all over? How can I tell if it sheered? Do I need to unscrew them?

Ah, crap, I just realized I was looking/taking photos of the wrong bolts (the little ones).

 

[Max*]

Alright, another stupid question, how can I tell if the motor is going bad? There's a clicking sound when the steering wheel is turned which I didn't hear from inside the cabin. 2 clicks in each direction. Wife was in the car, I couldn't tell if the clicks are related to the areas I feel tension on.

Video with clicks: Dropbox - 20181018_174225.mp4

 

[mongo]

Alright, another stupid question, how can I tell if the motor is going bad? There's a clicking sound when the steering wheel is turned which I didn't hear from inside the cabin. 2 clicks in each direction. Wife was in the car, I couldn't tell if the clicks are related to the areas I feel tension on.

Video with clicks: Dropbox - 20181018_174225.mp4

Your issue may be the flex coupling/ u joints on the steering wheel shaft. It causes force changes at 90 degree intervals.

 

[Brass Guy]

I can't tell what that clicking is, but it's not the bolt problem. Can you tell where it's coming from? A joint in the shaft is a good idea, especially if they happen when the steering wheel is at the same angle. I saw what looks like the sway bar moving so the suspension is moving a little too; maybe look there. Sway bar link? Really can't tell. It could be as benign as a piece of plastic out of place.

 

[Max*]

Your issue may be the flex coupling/ u joints on the steering wheel shaft. It causes force changes at 90 degree intervals.

Thanks! This sounds exactly like my problem. I drove around a little more today, at 90 degrees, the wheel "sticks". (I.e. I make a turn, let go of the wheel, it sticks at 90 degrees until I force it back to 0 degrees to drive straight). Mostly low speeds.

Something that's DIY-able? Or a more involved repair better left for Tesla?

I can't tell what that clicking is, but it's not the bolt problem. Can you tell where it's coming from? A joint in the shaft is a good idea, especially if they happen when the steering wheel is at the same angle. I saw what looks like the sway bar moving so the suspension is moving a little too; maybe look there. Sway bar link? Really can't tell. It could be as benign as a piece of plastic out of place.

I wasn't able isolate to the sound, I'm going to look at it again today with a more mechanically inclined friend. Maybe he'll help me isolate it. If it's not something I can DIY, I'll bring it in to Tesla for an expensive repair.

Makes me feel a little better that it's not related to the recall. Thanks.

 

[mongo]

Thanks! This sounds exactly like my problem. I drove around a little more today, at 90 degrees, the wheel "sticks". (I.e. I make a turn, let go of the wheel, it sticks at 90 degrees until I force it back to 0 degrees to drive straight). Mostly low speeds.

Something that's DIY-able? Or a more involved repair better left for Tesla?



I wasn't able isolate to the sound, I'm going to look at it again today with a more mechanically inclined friend. Maybe he'll help me isolate it. If it's not something I can DIY, I'll bring it in to Tesla for an expensive repair.

Makes me feel a little better that it's not related to the recall. Thanks.

Take it in, the joint may be the one in the steering column to allow tilt.
Similar issue:
Power steering issue

 

[Max*]

Take it in, the joint may be the one in the steering column to allow tilt.
Similar issue:
Power steering issue

Yep, just like that, thanks. Seems he got the steering rack replaced in addition to the rest of the work.

 

[Max*]

Isolated the clicking -- it's coming from the boot area on the passenger side shaft/tie rod(?) (opposite side of the drive shaft with the u-joint, though the "sticking" sounds like it still is a u-joint problem).

I'll stop thread-jacking this thread and call Tesla. Thanks for the help.

 

[Max*]

Tesla fixed the two problems, better than I thought, I only paid $505.

1. U-joint for sticking steering wheel -including alignment

Corrections: Steering Rack and Lower Column General Diagnosis
Removed and replaced the intermediate shaft. Verified proper operation.


2. Clicking sound - Goodwill (thanks Tesla)

Corrections: Steering Rack and Lower Column General Diagnosis
Checked torque of power steering rack bolts and cleaned the bash plate out. Removed
and replace the rapid mate due leakage. Verified noise is no longer present.



My only issue now is that the steering wheel is off by about 4-5 degrees. The wheels are aligned, but the wheel is slightly crooked (from other threads, I see this is a common alignment problem)

 

[Brass Guy]

The steering wheel angle is unacceptable, and is a result of improper alignment procedure. Before any adjustments are made, the steering wheel must be centered. Obviously it was not.

Tell them about it, they should repeat the alignment for you.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Confirming, tonight I have a failing U-joint. Also, reminded how Tesla can return "aligned" cars with steering wheels off 3-5 degrees. Happened to me on several occasions, until I started compensating the tie-rod nuts an equal amount to correct it (usually one facet of the nut / 1/6 turn is good for a degree, or so, w/o taking the car out of alignment). Just adjust symmetrically. Confident from how well that worked w/o excess tire wear, I string aligned the rear when installing the Electrified Garage camber kit. Couldn't be happier with now modest negative camber, but I digress.

Compared to the recalled bolts, the U-joint far away from them was a rust bomb. With fronts off the ground, it was obvious the 3, or 4, resistance points, no matter car on/off, comfort, standard or sport (ver. 8) as the wheel goes lock to lock. So far, I've greased the joint w/o removing anything. If that doesn't work, I might bath it with penetrants and try one more time. I was hopeful for a HowTo shaft replacement from all the car guys at TMC, but know there aren't that many who do their own work here. This looks common, especially for the salt road crowd.

 

[islandbayy]

Confirming, tonight I have a failing U-joint. Also, reminded how Tesla can return "aligned" cars with steering wheels off 3-5 degrees. Happened to me on several occasions, until I started compensating the tie-rod nuts an equal amount to correct it (usually one facet of the nut / 1/6 turn is good for a degree, or so, w/o taking the car out of alignment). Just adjust symmetrically. Confident from how well that worked w/o excess tire wear, I string aligned the rear when installing the Electrified Garage camber kit. Couldn't be happier with now modest negative camber, but I digress.

Compared to the recalled bolts, the U-joint far away from them was a rust bomb. With fronts off the ground, it was obvious the 3, or 4, resistance points, no matter car on/off, comfort, standard or sport (ver. 8) as the wheel goes lock to lock. So far, I've greased the joint w/o removing anything. If that doesn't work, I might bath it with penetrants and try one more time. I was hopeful for a HowTo shaft replacement from all the car guys at TMC, but know there aren't that many who do their own work here. This looks common, especially for the salt road crowd.

Did greasing the joint help at all? I'm planning to do the same in the morning. My MX seems to be falling apart this year (Of course it's 2020)...

 

[islandbayy]

Ok, here's the deal. I put my MX in high suspension mode, and parked over the edge of my driveway. Just a quick experiment before I pull things apart or dive deeper in to this.
With the wheel turned to the left for max access, I slid under the vehicle. I was able to see that lower U joint. Can't believe it's not more protected from the elements. Lots of rust on that component.
I sprayed it with a general penetrant/lubricant. My tires are ready for replacement anyways so I sat for a couple minutes turning the wheel back and fourth. After about 2 minutes of this, the wheel turned smoothly, not quite like new but 95% better than it was.

It was just a few squirts of lubricant, not even a lot. I have an idea for a more permanent fix, if it works, I'll make a video on it. I believe this a big safety issue and will be filing a NHTSA complaint. My wife can no longer turn the wheel when it gets to the stop points, even with it set to comfort. I'm going to pull it apart today to get a better look. If a good greasing works, I'm going to do a setup similar to a CV Joint with a boot.

 

[islandbayy]

Another Update. Hate to post too much, but I removed the Frunk. It is VERY difficult to get to the U Joint in a MX. Didn't look in my MS, but my MS is working fine.
I then removed the front drivers side wheel (On R-Hand drive vehicles remove right wheel). Easy access to see the U Joint. However much dis-assembly is needed to physically work on the joint.
Don't forget to use jack-stands.

The U-Joint was caked with hard dried grease (Not the lubricant that I used, actual grease like what would be in a CV Joint), and completely packed with Sand, Dirt, even looked like bits of salt from last winter, and rust.
I used a MILD spray degreaser to clean that joint. Went through 3 cans to get it all off. It was BAD. The extension straw with the cans got the spray about 2 inches from the joint. DO NOT Use a water based degreaser!!! Or one containing Xylene or Acetone! It will damage rubber components and can melt some plastics!

After it was clean and what was dripping off no longer black from grease or orange from rust, I used my air gun to dry it out. Emptied my 21 gallon compressor a couple times while also turning the wheel every 30 seconds or so to make sure I got it as DRY as possible.

JUST The act of cleaning the living crap out of that joint, the wheel turned smooth as butter!!!!!!!!!!! But not stopping there! Needs some lubricant!

I have quite a large selection of lubricants in my garage as I do a lot of motorcycle and mechanical work. After weighing the pros and cons of each lubricant style, especially since initially, I wanted to go with a CV Grease, and then put some sort of wrap or boot over it just like a CV Joint to protect and keep the grease in, and keep it clean and dry, but without disassembling other things, of which I didn't want to do (Need to remove a LOT from the frunk! Might try going from the bottom to put a quick boot on if what I did doesn't last reasonably).
After looking over 10+ products, I actually decided on a Chain Lubricant. Designed for chains of all types, including motorcycles and bicycles. Of which have chains exposed directly to the elements.
The particular one I used had PTFE (Teflon) which is a nice dry lubricant (Won't attract and hold dirt, dust and sand like most lubricants do).

So gave it a HEAVY dose, while also rotating the wheel to get it in every nook and cranny of the U Joint. More rust color came out, so it looks as if it got some good penetration! I sprayed until the rust color stopped dripping out. Still have half can left.

Drove the MX around yesterday, and smooth as silk! I'd put up with doing this every couple months to save a cool $1000 in replacement, unless it gets worse. After doing it, the whole process could have been done in about 15 minutes or less (For the initial degreasing, getting all the caked on crud off). A touch up cleaning and spray could really be done with the wheel on, and suspension on high with wheel turned to the right in about 2 minutes (which is why I wouldn't mind doing it again every couple months).

Also after looking at the while setup, this really should be a Recalled/Service Bulletin item. The U Joint is directly exposed to everything the front drivers side tire kicks up. All sand, slush, snow, rain, EVERYTHING.


Video has been recorded. It's a bit long, but shows more in detail. Unfortunately it's after the joint was cleaned and I didn't get a "Before" picture of it, but you can see how rusty it is even after being cleaned!

I will edit the video this weekend and post Sunday or Monday.


On the bright side, since I took the Frunk apart, I got to vacuum and clean out the Bio-Hazard filter. Holy crap that was full too! Took 3 Dyson V10 recharges to get it clean, followed by a blow job by the air gun.

 

[islandbayy]

Products I used to clean and then lubricate the joint. This can be done Pro-Actively as well. Check how dirty or corroded the joint is, you could proactively clean and lubricate this joint to help prevent a problem. This has worked spectacularly for me.
Safe Degreaser to clean the U-Joint (Won't Damage other components): https://amzn.to/3f4mH2k

Currently recommended Lubricant Similar to the (Discontinued) Product used in the video: https://amzn.to/35smAds

 

[3mp_kwh]

It worked great. Been a while, but wanted to come back. With bearing grease, using any kind of fine point that can get around the joint (I wend downward from the brake fluid reservoir, on Model S). I worked the grease into the joint, by suspending the front, and turning the steering wheel full lock-to-lock, over a dozen times. That way you can feel it free up. I didn't want to use thinner penetrant, for fear of it not lasting. No removal necessary.

Among my first take-aways from driving Model S were "odd need to manually unwind steering wheel.". -That was on more than one. In my experience, they're all more stiff than normal. I theorized it had to do with defeating the auto-steer gear (electric power steering), which dragged the steering wheel's return to center. Nope. These U-joints must have tight tolerances, when new. Like, too tight. I like steering wheels that return to center, with little effort if not completely on their own (pretty normal). So, now it's better than new, IMO.

I'm in the northeast and, FWIW, am not inclined to report to NHTSA. The joint rusts into more and more of that lumpy, rotational resistance. I don't think it would snap, or break. At least not within 8-10 years. We'll soon hear a story, or two, if I'm wrong. Fortunately, like the suspension arm failures, I would guess these joints would ultimately fail under the higher stresses of a parking lot, or driveway. That's assuming you don't get tendinitis, from turning it, first.

 

[islandbayy]

It worked great. Been a while, but wanted to come back. With bearing grease, using any kind of fine point that can get around the joint (I wend downward from the brake fluid reservoir, on Model S). I worked the grease into the joint, by suspending the front, and turning the steering wheel full lock-to-lock, over a dozen times. That way you can feel it free up. I didn't want to use thinner penetrant, for fear of it not lasting. No removal necessary.

Among my first take-aways from driving Model S were "odd need to manually unwind steering wheel.". -That was on more than one. In my experience, they're all more stiff than normal. I theorized it had to do with defeating the auto-steer gear (electric power steering), which dragged the steering wheel's return to center. Nope. These U-joints must have tight tolerances, when new. Like, too tight. I like steering wheels that return to center, with little effort if not completely on their own (pretty normal). So, now it's better than new, IMO.

I'm in the northeast and, FWIW, am not inclined to report to NHTSA. The joint rusts into more and more of that lumpy, rotational resistance. I don't think it would snap, or break. At least not within 8-10 years. We'll soon hear a story, or two, if I'm wrong. Fortunately, like the suspension arm failures, I would guess these joints would ultimately fail under the higher stresses of a parking lot, or driveway. That's assuming you don't get tendinitis, from turning it, first.

I used a PTFE Lubricant, (Teflon). Thus far, since doing this and the video, it's been 6 months, a NASTY Wisconsin Winter, and still smooth as silk The reason I went with a dry lubricant, instead of Grease or the like, is it wouldn't pick up as much crud (Crap won't stick to it as much). I did just had my passengers side control arm replaced due to rust and NASTY creaking noise.

 

[Cavell219]

It worked great. Been a while, but wanted to come back. With bearing grease, using any kind of fine point that can get around the joint (I wend downward from the brake fluid reservoir, on Model S). I worked the grease into the joint, by suspending the front, and turning the steering wheel full lock-to-lock, over a dozen times. That way you can feel it free up. I didn't want to use thinner penetrant, for fear of it not lasting. No removal necessary.

Among my first take-aways from driving Model S were "odd need to manually unwind steering wheel.". -That was on more than one. In my experience, they're all more stiff than normal. I theorized it had to do with defeating the auto-steer gear (electric power steering), which dragged the steering wheel's return to center. Nope. These U-joints must have tight tolerances, when new. Like, too tight. I like steering wheels that return to center, with little effort if not completely on their own (pretty normal). So, now it's better than new, IMO.

I'm in the northeast and, FWIW, am not inclined to report to NHTSA. The joint rusts into more and more of that lumpy, rotational resistance. I don't think it would snap, or break. At least not within 8-10 years. We'll soon hear a story, or two, if I'm wrong. Fortunately, like the suspension arm failures, I would guess these joints would ultimately fail under the higher stresses of a parking lot, or driveway. That's assuming you don't get tendinitis, from turning it, first.

I have a late model 2015 S and have the same issue. I pulled it apart yesterday and noticed mine had a dustcap on it protecting some already existing bearing grease. Was yours covered? Or was it like the X. Regreasing mine seemed to have no affect but will give it another try tomorrow.