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U.N. official 'delighted' at VW scandal, sees clean car 'revolution'

Kandiru

Active Member
Oct 20, 2014
1,130
364
USA
Notice the squareheads raining on the parade in the comments section, I can bet you most of them think dualie Diesel truck exhaust fume inhalation is part of normal child development.
 

tigerade

Member
May 14, 2013
663
65
Georgia
Notice the squareheads raining on the parade in the comments section, I can bet you most of them think dualie Diesel truck exhaust fume inhalation is part of normal child development.


Yahoo News commenters are hardly denizens of an intellectual future, more of a diagnosis of sick ignorance in America.
 

Ktowntslafan

Member
Nov 3, 2014
715
17
Canada
This little bit bothers me...clearly Mrs. Figueres does not understand Tesla's mission or that the Model 3 will launch next year:

"Figueres said high-end electric car company Tesla could not lead a mass market conversion now because its cheapest models start at around $70,000.
"Tesla <TSLGI.RTS> is certainly opening up very, very new ground but Tesla, as we all know, is not exactly the peoples' vehicle," Figueres said."

Hopefully someone will enlighten her later this month.
 

Noneduck

Member
Oct 1, 2015
88
164
Albuquerque NM
As for Tesla having an impact on climate change (or not). It has been a good business move to focus on high profit margin (read, expensive) vehicles first. For Tesla to make an inexpensive mass market car, it needs to stay in business. It also needs to build a highly desirable vehicle (e.g. not-Leaf). Plan seems to be working so far.
 

Ktowntslafan

Member
Nov 3, 2014
715
17
Canada
This little bit bothers me...clearly Mrs. Figueres does not understand Tesla's mission or that the Model 3 will launch next year:

"Figueres said high-end electric car company Tesla could not lead a mass market conversion now because its cheapest models start at around $70,000.
"Tesla <TSLGI.RTS> is certainly opening up very, very new ground but Tesla, as we all know, is not exactly the peoples' vehicle," Figueres said."

Hopefully someone will enlighten her later this month.

A little background on "The Peoples Vehicle"-ten years in the making, open patents for all:

The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me)



Elon Musk, Co-Founder & CEO of Tesla Motors August 2, 2006

The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me) | Tesla Motors




- - - Updated - - -

VW, thanks for now doing the right thing. Please don't forget to give credit where credit is due.
 

CHG-ON

Still in love after all these miles
Jun 24, 2014
3,079
636
Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
To your point.

I think that Tesla is doing it exactly right:

-Proof of concept: The Roadster
-Proof of viability: Model S
-Expand the concept: Model X. Though a risk.
-Mass market: Model 3


Next is for them to deliver on the M3. If they do it well, I quit my job and retire.

And don't forget that they are investing heavily in their most desperately needed product: batteries.

I've been a believer since well before I ever thought I could afford the car. I believe in the product, the mission and the necessity to get of all fossil fuel.

As for Tesla having an impact on climate change (or not). It has been a good business move to focus on high profit margin (read, expensive) vehicles first. For Tesla to make an inexpensive mass market car, it needs to stay in business. It also needs to build a highly desirable vehicle (e.g. not-Leaf). Plan seems to be working so far.
 

bh1783

Member
Apr 7, 2014
229
184
NY

Freudianly

Banned
Oct 14, 2014
94
0
Europe
67% drop in VW sales in Korea
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2015/11/123_190330.html
I think every car sold by VW in korea is a diesel except for the GTI

Cheers !
But VW's market share declined by only 8% in the U.K.
And the European Commission raised the on-road emissions limit for nitrogen oxides (NOX) emissions from diesel cars for 2017 at 2.1 times the laboratory test-based limit, instead of punishing European diesel car manufacturers with heavy fines.
The miseducation of the diesel car | International Council on Clean Transportation
 
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Aljohn

Member
Oct 17, 2014
903
502
Georgia
VW has opened the conversation by falsely reporting emissions on their TDI vehicles. I was a believer that TDI (for an ICE) was a lower emissions alternative to Gasoline (FSI) in Europe and the world. A number of European nations had given diesels a lower carbon tax than gas vehicles. With the greater mileage, it seemed diesels were the perfect compromise. Finding that VW manipulated the test will be a major blow across their brands. Not so much as to a buyers concern for the environment as we may wish, but more to the economic loss of resale value. Dealers won't have inventory, because the can't sell them; buyers won't buy TDI's, including the 2 liter models, but may become distrustful of the 6 cylinder models as well. The TDI Audi Q7 was my "back up" SUV to the Model X. It is no longer. Awareness is what VW inadvertently brought to the conversation -- the insatiable appetite of the Six O'clock news is more powerful than the UN Climate Conference.
 

Ktowntslafan

Member
Nov 3, 2014
715
17
Canada
Cheers !
But VW's market share declined by only 8% in the U.K.
And the European Commission raised the on-road emissions limit for nitrogen oxides (NOX) emissions from diesel cars for 2017 at 2.1 times the laboratory test-based limit, instead of punishing European diesel car manufacturers with heavy fines.
The miseducation of the diesel car | International Council on Clean Transportation

I love this:

"Strangely enough, the bit that really captured my attention was this engineer’s candid, off-topic confession that she blows her nose in the car and throws the dirty tissues out the window while driving because she wasn’t told any better as a child."

- - - Updated - - -

the insatiable appetite of the Six O'clock news is more powerful than the UN Climate Conference.

Agreed.

Thankfully, the timing is as such that UN Climate Conference will benefit from VW media attention.

We might actually get something done at this one.
 
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Nov 24, 2013
329
3
Europe
Cheers !
But VW's market share declined by only 8% in the U.K.

Not sure how it works in the UK (or Korea), but statistics in most countries are based on registrations (i.e. deliveries) of new cars (which most buyers will have ordered a few weeks or months before). VW was in Belgium also proud to announce that October registrations were quite stable compared to September or to last year, but that doesn't mean a thing: the proof of the pudding will be in the December/January registrations, I would think.

Anyway, the VW-Dieselgate story is, from a European perspective, a wonderful thing to have happened (and probably not over yet, because it would be surprising if it were limited to VW...). Until recently in Belgium for example, the federal government would pay 15% of your new car's price if the car had less than 100 g/km CO2 emissions, and taxation and tax deductibility were also based on CO2 (as in many European countries). Only CO2 was taken into account (not the more toxic pollution parameters! - as if CO2 ever killed anyone...). Small diesel city cars are (officially) better at that than their gasoline counterparts, so Belgian inner cities had/have become infested with small city cars running on diesel (great result - and in the meanwhile the Belgian taxpayer was paying Germany, France and Japan for making such great cars, go figure...).

Very happy that this is over. Today, Belgium is largely subsidizing EV's via tax incentives. Counting all tax incentives over four years ownership, a Tesla MS is more or less at the same price level as a similarly loaded BMW 5-series or Audi A5 (diesel :)). The result is that (behind Norway, Switzerland and the Netherlands) Belgium has become the European country with the most percentage Tesla's. One can argue whether subsidies/tax incentives are always justified (as in the previous Belgian example of "CO2/diesel-subsidies") but in any event they clearly do work (and today, happily, for Tesla)!
 

Ktowntslafan

Member
Nov 3, 2014
715
17
Canada
Very happy that this is over. Today, Belgium is largely subsidizing EV's via tax incentives. Counting all tax incentives over four years ownership, a Tesla MS is more or less at the same price level as a similarly loaded BMW 5-series or Audi A5 (diesel :)). The result is that (behind Norway, Switzerland and the Netherlands) Belgium has become the European country with the most percentage Tesla's. One can argue whether subsidies/tax incentives are always justified (as in the previous Belgian example of "CO2/diesel-subsidies") but in any event they clearly do work (and today, happily, for Tesla)!

"but in any event they clearly do work"

Carl, Hallelujah!

COP21 Nov. 30th...how many countries can we get on board with EV incentives?

http://evroadmapconference.com/program/presentations15/OlaElvestuen.pdf

Bill Gates Dismisses Free Market's Ability To Counter Climate Change - Page 4

New york times-ev incentives

Let's all help accelerate the advent of sustainable transport!
 

drinkerofkoolaid

Active Member
Nov 3, 2012
1,816
1,756
F
How can Volkswagen survive this? In the USA, they defrauded every person who bought one of the vehicles. The "defect" being addressed is there by design, and therefore cannot be fixed. The only remedy would be to buy back the vehicles from every person who purchased one, and possibly pay them 3x the amount paid since it was intentional.

In Europe and Asia, Volkswagen may need to compensate anyone who bought a vehicle, in addition to the tax differential + whatever figure people may be entitled to in cases such as this.

The damages could easily exceed $100 billion. Volkswagen is more than a company, and it's not clear to me how the German government can intervene to produce a resolution. I'm not positive, but I think the Prime Minister of Lower Saxony owns a Tesla. :wink:

Tesla boss Musk calls for 'random emission' testing. Companies. Tengrinews.kz
Post VW Scandal, Elon Musk Calls for Random Emissions Testing

The perception of diesel’s fuel economy is one reason why such cars are still popular across the pond in Europe. But that may not be for long as the Volkswagen saga still dominates the press wires and the attention of bureaucrats. Switzerland, for example, is banning the sale of Volkswagen models known to have been fitted with the defeat device software
 
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Ktowntslafan

Member
Nov 3, 2014
715
17
Canada
How can Volkswagen survive this? In the USA, they defrauded every person who bought one of the vehicles. The "defect" being addressed is there by design, and therefore cannot be fixed. The only remedy would be to buy back the vehicles from every person who purchased one, and possibly pay them 3x the amount paid since it was intentional.

In Europe and Asia, Volkswagen may need to compensate anyone who bought a vehicle, in addition to the tax differential + whatever figure people may be entitled to in cases such as this.

The damages could easily exceed $100 billion. Volkswagen is more than a company, and it's not clear to me how the German government can intervene to produce a resolution. I'm not positive, but I think the Prime Minister of Lower Saxony owns a Tesla. :wink:

Tesla boss Musk calls for 'random emission' testing. Companies. Tengrinews.kz
Post VW Scandal, Elon Musk Calls for Random Emissions Testing

Millions of VW customers deceived,
Thousands of VW employees and dealers misled,
Our shared air poisoned,
An entire nation's reputation being scrutinized...

Because of capitalism run amok.

Those responsible need to face justice proportional to the suffering they have/will cause. There needs to be consequences to curtail this behaviour. How much jail time would anyone face if they were responsible for killing 59 people in the US...never mind the rest of the world.

It's time to send a message...and not this:

Volkswagen CEO Likely to Get $32 Million Pension After Leaving - Bloomberg Business

Jail time...or else it never stops happening.
 
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Freudianly

Banned
Oct 14, 2014
94
0
Europe
Not sure how it works in the UK (or Korea), but statistics in most countries are based on registrations (i.e. deliveries) of new cars (which most buyers will have ordered a few weeks or months before). VW was in Belgium also proud to announce that October registrations were quite stable compared to September or to last year, but that doesn't mean a thing: the proof of the pudding will be in the December/January registrations, I would think.

Anyway, the VW-Dieselgate story is, from a European perspective, a wonderful thing to have happened (and probably not over yet, because it would be surprising if it were limited to VW...). Until recently in Belgium for example, the federal government would pay 15% of your new car's price if the car had less than 100 g/km CO2 emissions, and taxation and tax deductibility were also based on CO2 (as in many European countries). Only CO2 was taken into account (not the more toxic pollution parameters! - as if CO2 ever killed anyone...). Small diesel city cars are (officially) better at that than their gasoline counterparts, so Belgian inner cities had/have become infested with small city cars running on diesel (great result - and in the meanwhile the Belgian taxpayer was paying Germany, France and Japan for making such great cars, go figure...).

Very happy that this is over. Today, Belgium is largely subsidizing EV's via tax incentives. Counting all tax incentives over four years ownership, a Tesla MS is more or less at the same price level as a similarly loaded BMW 5-series or Audi A5 (diesel :)). The result is that (behind Norway, Switzerland and the Netherlands) Belgium has become the European country with the most percentage Tesla's. One can argue whether subsidies/tax incentives are always justified (as in the previous Belgian example of "CO2/diesel-subsidies") but in any event they clearly do work (and today, happily, for Tesla)!

The thing is, as was shown by a scientific study conducted in Great Britain, most diesel cars on the road pollute far above the legal limit, whether they have been manufactured by VW or any other car maker. But the mass-media in Europe fail to report that, strangely; or if they do they quickly forget. Corporations protecting other corporations, trying to curtail the scope of the scandal ? Governments and the European Commission doing the exact the same thing ? I must be a conspiracy theorist; you know, one of those lunatics ridiculed by the mass-media and governments.
What I clearly witness anyway is that in their conversations, most people talk only about VW. The same people who for the majority do not trust the mass-media according to polls, yet keep on watching TV, and at the same time deny being manipulated when you ask them. Things are subtler enough than in the USSR to fool the average Joe. And when you realize that a non-negligible minority defend VW (customers who clearly state that they do not care about pollution), you can only conclude that the battle against polluting cars will not be won thanks to this controlled scandal, but more likely by a genius like Elon.
 
Nov 24, 2013
329
3
Europe
The thing is, as was shown by a scientific study conducted in Great Britain, most diesel cars on the road pollute far above the legal limit, whether they have been manufactured by VW or any other car maker. But the mass-media in Europe fail to report that, strangely; or if they do they quickly forget. Corporations protecting other corporations, trying to curtail the scope of the scandal ? Governments and the European Commission doing the exact the same thing ? I must be a conspiracy theorist; you know, one of those lunatics ridiculed by the mass-media and governments.

That's indeed one of the ironical lessons: there is no subject matter on which there is such a large specialized press as cars; those journalists and experts are supposed to test cars, right? And no-one ever noticed NOx emissions were 40 times higher than officially stated?? No-one of that press even heard of anything like that??

Perhaps if you accept advertising as a source of revenue you cannot make an honest car magazine with proper journalists, as you're not catering to the consumers, but to the (potential) advertisers. Then again, if you refuse advertising as a source of revenue you cannot make any car magazine which will survive more than two issues, I suppose... Sad truths.
 

Ktowntslafan

Member
Nov 3, 2014
715
17
Canada
This is great timing...as is the the VW scandal (probably caused by the VW scandal!). I really hope the air pollution accelerates over the next few weeks, so that talks may do the same:

Paris Fog Spells Embarrassment One Month From UN Climate Talks - Bloomberg Business

- - - Updated - - -

How great would it be to collect every environment ministers Twitter handle and send them the same message:

Follow Norway's lead and drop GHG 30%!

http://evroadmapconference.com/program/presentations15/OlaElvestuen.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/business/international/norway-is-global-model-for-encouraging-sales-of-electric-cars.html


I will go first, everyone please join in:

Catherine McKenna (@ec_minister) | Twitter
E4hXQO_x_400x400.jpg
 
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