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U.N. official 'delighted' at VW scandal, sees clean car 'revolution'

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#21
Ktowntslafan said:
This is great timing...as is the the VW scandal (probably caused by the VW scandal!). I really hope the air pollution accelerates over the next few weeks, so that talks may do the same:

Paris Fog Spells Embarrassment One Month From UN Climate Talks - Bloomberg Business

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How great would it be to collect every environment ministers Twitter handle and send them the same message:

Follow Norway's lead and drop GHG 30%!

http://evroadmapconference.com/program/presentations15/OlaElvestuen.pdf

Log In - The New York Times

I will go first, everyone please join in:

Catherine McKenna (@ec_minister) | Twitter
E4hXQO_x_400x400.jpg
Click to expand...


Environment ministers have no power whatsoever, they are mere figureheads. Proof: not a single one of them in Europe publicly fought the European Commission's increase of the NOX emissions limit for diesel cars, done to cover European car manufacturers' asses. I have not heard of a single minister in Europe resigning over this meta-scandal.
 
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#22
Freudianly said:
Environment ministers have no power whatsoever, they are mere figureheads. Proof: not a single one of them in Europe publicly fought the European Commission's raise of the NOX emissions limits for diesel cars, done to cover European car manufacturers' asses. I have not heard of a single minister in Europe resigning over this meta-scandal.
Click to expand...

I think it's worth a shot...and could be a bit of fun.

Re: raising of NOX limits, is your media on it?
 
#23
Carl Leermakers said:
That's indeed one of the ironical lessons: there is no subject matter on which there is such a large specialized press as cars; those journalists and experts are supposed to test cars, right? And no-one ever noticed NOx emissions were 40 times higher than officially stated?? No-one of that press even heard of anything like that??

Perhaps if you accept advertising as a source of revenue you cannot make an honest car magazine with proper journalists, as you're not catering to the consumers, but to the (potential) advertisers. Then again, if you refuse advertising as a source of revenue you cannot make any car magazine which will survive more than two issues, I suppose... Sad truths.
Click to expand...

Maybe the real problem lies with all those men who buy car magazines. From a psychoanalytical point of view, for example according to Erich Fromm, a fascination for mechanical objects or systems is a symptom of necrophilia, of lifelessness; real life is chaotic, free, not mechanical.
 
#24

Climate change tragedy on horizon, ex-Bank governor Mark Carney says


Climate change tragedy on horizon, ex-Bank governor Mark Carney says | Toronto Star

Maybe decision makers will now start to take notice. Never mind the environment...this "climate change thing" is starting to F with my money!

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VW doubles down on electric vehicles, hoping to move beyond the diesel scandal


VW doubles down on electric vehicles, hoping to move beyond the diesel scandal - The Orange County Register

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Carl Leermakers said:
it would be surprising if it were limited to VW
Click to expand...

We are about to find out...

Log In - The New York Times
 
#25
I fear of adding to this fire some high-octane fat but, with that caveat, am doing so anyway.

I am annoyed at the tone a number of contributors have taken in calling this scandal a result of what they are calling "capitalism". As far as I am concerned, the moment you take that stance you are obliged to demonstrate how far more environmentally responsible have been what most consider that system's diametrical opposite - the centrally-planned economy.

I await their discussions of the environmental situation in the Soviet Union and Mao-era PRC.
 
#26
AudubonB said:
I fear of adding to this fire some high-octane fat but, with that caveat, am doing so anyway.

I am annoyed at the tone a number of contributors have taken in calling this scandal a result of what they are calling "capitalism". As far as I am concerned, the moment you take that stance you are obliged to demonstrate how far more environmentally responsible have been what most consider that system's diametrical opposite - the centrally-planned economy.

I await their discussions of the environmental situation in the Soviet Union and Mao-era PRC.
Click to expand...

So only two political systems are possible, in your mind. Interesting. You take us back to the Cold War. You really cannot imagine another political system ?
 
#27
Uncalled-for, and not worthy of a response but, as it's the weekend, you'll get one anyway.

*First, your smarmy reply regarding what's in my mind shows that you have no idea of what the term diametrical opposite encompasses.

*Second, by all accounts - not just what this Cold War reprobate thinks - Germany is a social-welfare state. Obviously, then, a Volkswagen-type scandal couldn't occur in such an enlightened atmosphere. Phew. What a relief.
 
#28
AudubonB said:
I fear of adding to this fire some high-octane fat but, with that caveat, am doing so anyway.

I am annoyed at the tone a number of contributors have taken in calling this scandal a result of what they are calling "capitalism". As far as I am concerned, the moment you take that stance you are obliged to demonstrate how far more environmentally responsible have been what most consider that system's diametrical opposite - the centrally-planned economy.

I await their discussions of the environmental situation in the Soviet Union and Mao-era PRC.
Click to expand...

With respect, I am equally annoyed with your tone. No one here is suggesting that full blown communism is the answer (I'm certainly not).

I think you are equally obliged to demonstrate the environmental merits of unchecked free market Capitalism.

Are you suggesting that you are completely satisfied with Capitalism's environmental track record?

The Volkswagen Cheating Scandal Reveals the True Nature of CapitalismCody Cain

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If you want to get really fired up, perhaps you should read through this thread:

Bill Gates Dismisses Free Market's Ability To Counter Climate Change
 
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#29
No, that's a non-sequitur. What irked me was that there had developed a tone of "See? That's what Capitalism gives you!"

My post, then, was to show the ridiculousness of that.

And it's all a lot more serious than to suggest capitalism, per se, was the culprit: if so, then centrally planned economies would have demonstrated the Correct Path. Oops. Thus, my remonstrances toward those who had fallen into that trap. It by no means suggest any obligation on my part, as you write.

To suggest that Mr Gates's article would ruffle me the wrong way really puts you on the wrong track and de-railed. He is correct: free market mechanisms can not appropriately account for economic externalities. In fact, the only minor issue I have with the article is the headline, which is not his. First, "Dismiss" is not the appropriate word; second, the headline makes it seem as though Mr Gates believes there exist in our socioeconomic sphere any significant free markets. Outside inconsequential barter environments as might occur in, say, my minuscule Alaskan hamlet, there are no free markets, and he is absolutely aware of that.
 
#30
AudubonB said:
No, that's a non-sequitur. What irked me was that there had developed a tone of "See? That's what Capitalism gives you!"

My post, then, was to show the ridiculousness of that.

And it's all a lot more serious than to suggest capitalism, per se, was the culprit: if so, then centrally planned economies would have demonstrated the Correct Path. Oops. Thus, my remonstrances toward those who had fallen into that trap. It by no means suggest any obligation on my part, as you write.

To suggest that Mr Gates's article would ruffle me the wrong way really puts you on the wrong track and de-railed. He is correct: free market mechanisms can not appropriately account for economic externalities. In fact, the only minor issue I have with the article is the headline, which is not his. First, "Dismiss" is not the appropriate word; second, the headline makes it seem as though Mr Gates believes there exist in our socioeconomic sphere any significant free markets. Outside inconsequential barter environments as might occur in, say, my minuscule Alaskan hamlet, there are no free markets, and he is absolutely aware of that.
Click to expand...

Read through the entire thread...you will get fired up...

Now may I have my thread back? PM me if you would like to debate...or take it to the Gates thread where it's more appropriate.
 
#31
Where we are now:

Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF | Environment | The Guardian


FuelSubs_Numbers-3-0-0.png


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Maybe Tweet this little tidbit to your environment minister at COP21...along with this:


How great would it be to collect every environment ministers Twitter handle and send them the same message:

Follow Norway's lead and drop GHG 30%!

http://evroadmapconference.com/program/presentations15/OlaElvestuen.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/business/international/norway-is-global-model-for-encouraging-sales-of-electric-cars.html
 
#32
AudubonB said:
I fear of adding to this fire some high-octane fat but, with that caveat, am doing so anyway.

I am annoyed at the tone a number of contributors have taken in calling this scandal a result of what they are calling "capitalism". As far as I am concerned, the moment you take that stance you are obliged to demonstrate how far more environmentally responsible have been what most consider that system's diametrical opposite - the centrally-planned economy.

I await their discussions of the environmental situation in the Soviet Union and Mao-era PRC.
Click to expand...

Enjoy :wink:...call me smarmy if you like...


Business Behaving Badly | TVo_Org


Thank you for Smoking Trailer - YouTube
 
#33
considering the level of government ownership and union power at VW, it was ironic that they were the entity that actioned such a premeditated level of cheating.

Family business may embody Toyota, Honda and Hyundai, while Capitalism is GM and Nissan and Ford, but not VW, VW actively requires unions at their manufacturing sites.

This VW scandal does however, clarify the future, to not include diesel vehicles.
 
#34
renim said:
considering the level of government ownership and union power at VW, it was ironic that they were the entity that actioned such a premeditated level of cheating.

Family business may embody Toyota, Honda and Hyundai, while Capitalism is GM and Nissan and Ford, but not VW, VW actively requires unions at their manufacturing sites.

This VW scandal does however, clarify the future, to not include diesel vehicles.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Funny how capitalism is blamed but VW is really part socialist - just like GM was.
 
#35
#38
[FONT=proxima_novalight]"The electric vehicle is going to get a huge boost in both popularity and funding, now that diesel has been tainted yet again. Not only will customers buy more of them, but automakers will make even more EV models, as to try and boost their eco-minded brand image. In turn, governments will subsidize EVs even more, offering even more incentives. Automakers will get more government backing for research and development and cities will offer more EV friendly charge points. The EV game has now been blown wide open."

[/FONT]Electric vehicles to benefit from diesel scandal?
 
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