U.S. Patent Office Rules In Favor Of Nikola In Lawsuit Against Tesla Semi

[Brando]

try search on something like:
hydrogen station fire

seems it may still be a problem

 

[Cal1]

So how can Tesla start Semi production if they lost the lawsuit? You would think they would have to completely redesign the outside.

 

[willow_hiller]

So how can Tesla start Semi production if they lost the lawsuit? You would think they would have to completely redesign the outside.

The TMC article doesn't make it clear, but Tesla didn't lose the entire lawsuit. They lost the petition to dismiss Nikola's lawsuit. The patent lawsuit itself has yet to be decided.

 

[Cal1]

Ahhhh... the plot thickens! Thanks

 

[JohnSnowNW]

So, here's a question.

If Nikola just admitted to discontinuing work on the Nikola One, does that not affect Nikola's position?

 

[Watts_Up]

Did you remember that Nikola was using CNG before H2:

 

[Mrbrock]

I think most current Tesla packs work out to about 6 kg per kW. So a 2 MW battery would weigh 12 metric tons.

If you look at the weights on the picture and the note that tractor weight includes battery You can calculate that going from 1Mw to 2Mw increase curb weight by 7000 pounds. Therefore a 2Mw battery pack would be 14,000 pounds. Divide that by 2000kw and you get 7 pounds per kw which is about 3.3kg per kw.

Either something is off with the weights in the picture or the current battery density is expected to greatly increase before that scenario becomes a reality.

(Just to check your math, you estimate the ~60kw pack in M3 SR+ weighs about 800 pounds?)

 

[willow_hiller]

(Just to check your math, you estimate the ~60kw pack in M3 SR+ weighs about 800 pounds?)

If I recall correctly, I believe I got the density from this Wikipedia article: Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

1,200 lbs for the 85 kWh pack, so 14 lbs or ~6 kg per kWh.

At that rate, yes, the pack in the SR+ would be just over 800 lbs.

 

[mongo]

If I recall correctly, I believe I got the density from this Wikipedia article: Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

1,200 lbs for the 85 kWh pack, so 14 lbs or ~6 kg per kWh.

At that rate, yes, the pack in the SR+ would be just over 800 lbs.

At the 2170 cell level, it's 246Wh/kg Tesla Model 3 2170 Energy Density Compared To Bolt, Model S P100D
Or 4kg/kWh. New roadrunner sizes and new chemistry will improve this.

 

[Brando]

sidenote: reminder

battery cell
battery module
battery pack

3 different things that of course have 3 different values

(and Elon has talked about eliminating the module - as time has shown it has no practical use)
Similar to metal seat frames (same used in all vehicles) , can battery packs be shared across vehicles ?

 

[willow_hiller]

New filing in the case by Tesla's lawyers: https://twitter.com/MotorSkeptic/status/1308903245436387329?s=20

They're alleging that Trevor Milton actually stole the design himself from a hydrogen powered semi truck design named Road Runner that was entered into a 2010 Michelin design challenge. Sounds plausible, because Trevor met with the designer of the Road Runner before patenting the Nikola One.

 

[themorey]

New filing in the case by Tesla's lawyers: https://twitter.com/MotorSkeptic/status/1308903245436387329?s=20

They're alleging that Trevor Milton actually stole the design himself from a hydrogen powered semi truck design named Road Runner that was entered into a 2010 Michelin design challenge. Sounds plausible, because Trevor met with the designer of the Road Runner before patenting the Nikola One.

I didn't know what this meant so I did some quick googling. The patent process requires the submitter to swear that he/she is the inventor:

you cannot patent something you did not invent. The patent application includes a declaration in which the applicant swears that everything in the application is true. So if you falsely claim that you invented something when you did not, that would amount to fraud on the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office which would result in a termination of any rights you may have obtained (along with possible sanctions).

http://www.intellectualpropertylawfirms.com/legal-advice/patent-rights-and-laws-for-ideas.htm#:~:text=Answer:,in the application is true.


Ok, but what if the original inventor sells the design, or just gives it away to the submitter?

f you purchased the idea from the inventor, or if the inventor gave you the invention, or the inventor assigned the invention to you in some other way, then you can file and get a patent, but you are supposed to indicate who the correct inventor is and the inventor will usually need to file a declaration that they are the inventor.

Can you get a patent on someone else's idea or product if they have not already filed the paperwork to get one themselves? - Quora


So what Tesla is alleging is not that Milton stole the idea, but that he did not invent it nor did he indicate in the Patent application the name of the real inventor. Based on that the Patent should be nullified. That sounds like some good lawyering at like Matlock levels.