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U.S. Patent Office Rules In Favor Of Nikola In Lawsuit Against Tesla Semi

Discussion in 'Semi' started by TMC Staff, Apr 22, 2020.

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  1. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    try search on something like:
    hydrogen station fire

    seems it may still be a problem
     
  2. Cal1

    Cal1 Member

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    So how can Tesla start Semi production if they lost the lawsuit? You would think they would have to completely redesign the outside.
     
  3. willow_hiller

    willow_hiller Active Member

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    The TMC article doesn't make it clear, but Tesla didn't lose the entire lawsuit. They lost the petition to dismiss Nikola's lawsuit. The patent lawsuit itself has yet to be decided.
     
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  4. Cal1

    Cal1 Member

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    Ahhhh... the plot thickens! Thanks
     
  5. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    So, here's a question.

    If Nikola just admitted to discontinuing work on the Nikola One, does that not affect Nikola's position?
     
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  6. Watts_Up

    Watts_Up Active Member

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    Did you remember that Nikola was using CNG before H2:

    NCNG2.jpg

    NCNG1.jpg
     
  7. Mrbrock

    Mrbrock Member

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    If you look at the weights on the picture and the note that tractor weight includes battery You can calculate that going from 1Mw to 2Mw increase curb weight by 7000 pounds. Therefore a 2Mw battery pack would be 14,000 pounds. Divide that by 2000kw and you get 7 pounds per kw which is about 3.3kg per kw.

    Either something is off with the weights in the picture or the current battery density is expected to greatly increase before that scenario becomes a reality.

    (Just to check your math, you estimate the ~60kw pack in M3 SR+ weighs about 800 pounds?)
     
  8. willow_hiller

    willow_hiller Active Member

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    If I recall correctly, I believe I got the density from this Wikipedia article: Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

    1,200 lbs for the 85 kWh pack, so 14 lbs or ~6 kg per kWh.

    At that rate, yes, the pack in the SR+ would be just over 800 lbs.
     
  9. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    • Helpful x 1
  10. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    sidenote: reminder

    battery cell
    battery module
    battery pack

    3 different things that of course have 3 different values

    (and Elon has talked about eliminating the module - as time has shown it has no practical use)
    Similar to metal seat frames (same used in all vehicles) , can battery packs be shared across vehicles ?
     
    • Like x 1
  11. willow_hiller

    willow_hiller Active Member

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    New filing in the case by Tesla's lawyers: https://twitter.com/MotorSkeptic/status/1308903245436387329?s=20

    They're alleging that Trevor Milton actually stole the design himself from a hydrogen powered semi truck design named Road Runner that was entered into a 2010 Michelin design challenge. Sounds plausible, because Trevor met with the designer of the Road Runner before patenting the Nikola One.
     
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  12. themorey

    themorey Member

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    I didn't know what this meant so I did some quick googling. The patent process requires the submitter to swear that he/she is the inventor:
    http://www.intellectualpropertylawfirms.com/legal-advice/patent-rights-and-laws-for-ideas.htm#:~:text=Answer:,in the application is true.


    Ok, but what if the original inventor sells the design, or just gives it away to the submitter?
    Can you get a patent on someone else's idea or product if they have not already filed the paperwork to get one themselves? - Quora


    So what Tesla is alleging is not that Milton stole the idea, but that he did not invent it nor did he indicate in the Patent application the name of the real inventor. Based on that the Patent should be nullified. That sounds like some good lawyering at like Matlock levels.
     
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