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Uber drivers and super chargers

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by Optic, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Optic

    Optic Member

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    What do you guys think of uber drivers and super charging? Are they the 20% who are taking up 80% of the resources?

    Today I waited at Olympic for a spot, the turn over was quick. I saw a young professional looking guy drive away. I thought I would turn on uber and see if it was a taxi. Sure enough, when I walked over to the bridge I could see the Tesla and as it drove away, a uber car also moved in the uber app. I Hope Tesla builds specific chargers for these guys. In a way, the average Joe car price is subsidizing these guys and I could argue it is unfair.

    I am not sure uber drivers is a big issue or not. I admit I only have one data point.
     
  2. jsiu

    jsiu Member

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    #2 jsiu, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
    From variety of sources including facebook and LINE, there are indeed queues for SC. Hong Kong is small, I trust most of us would only have a daily mileage less than 100km (except those living in North NT and Lantau). Therefore, the need for SC should not be that acute and stressful. On the other hand, for commercial operation like Uber, the need for SC is entirely different. It is indeed a good question of 'are the 20% taking up 80% of the resources? Will it be an appropriate way to implement fair usage like the mobile phone operators?

    How about a fair usage plan like the mobile phone operators imposed on data usage?
     
  3. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    Well, one thing to consider perhaps is: what is the point to BEVs anyway. If it's that they are just fantastic cars irrespective of their drives, I can see an argument that Uber drivers shouldn't use the Supercharge more than anyone else.

    However, if there's also a part of BEVs that has to do with lessening CO2 emissions, then I'd think there would be an argument for the more Uber drivers use the Superchargers the better.
     
  4. en-ev

    en-ev Member

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    I don't see a good point to limit Uber drivers from using Super Chargers as long as they charge and go w/o blocking the slot. In fact, this is one of major reasons(I think) they paid for joining Tesla camp. If Super Chargers is highly utilized in HK, Tesla should build more to supply our demands.

    I'm not a Uber driver.
     
  5. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    Bjørn Nyland does something very similar, carrying objects for pay and using Superchargers - and no one seems to have a problem with that.
    Uber rides expose people to the car.
     
  6. Optic

    Optic Member

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    I don't think the problem is Tesla is unwilling to build more or not, its about finding the spaces that has enough electricity. Our car prices includes super charger usage, in a way, we are subsidizing taxi drivers. I think the more you use the more you should pay. In US, super chargers are made for road trips, of course situation is different in HK. But I think super chargers should not be used for commercial purposes as it is a scarce resource.

    Secondly I would argue that these parking perks we are losing *might* be partially caused by uber drivers. If all these free parking perks we have had with Hopewell and Panda came from market studies, at the beginning of the year, free parking would make sense as the drivers are high spending locals. But now that we have commercial drivers utilizing consumer perks, these car parks will have to stop offering free parking or charging spots. Commercial drivers are easy to spot, if they are there once or twice a day charging at the same time. A rational businessman then would not want to install chargers at their parking spots as taxi drivers are not the customers they want. This leads to a slippery slope.

    On the other hand, EV usage are promoted but the hogging of SC is detrimental to EV development.

    So my proposal would be, fair usage for any SC in malls or convenient locations during peak hours (say 9-9). And then build out commercial SC at more inconvenient locations, like NT or south side of HK for the commercial fleets.

    Tesla Owners Frustrated by Recharge Waits - WSJ
     
  7. en-ev

    en-ev Member

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    #7 en-ev, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
    I can't disagree with your second point. Your proposal to build SC in special location(s) for commercial users might be a solution. Merry Christmas!
     
  8. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    It's a sad reflection on Hong Kong that people are selfish enough to block Superchargers and use them in ways that not one other country has experienced. They probably need to penalize people who park in a Supercharger more than 2 hours or charge in a pattern that suggests commercial use.
     
  9. icemankaka

    icemankaka Member

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    if they could just ban repeating usage of carparks (typical users wont need to supercharge more than 2-3 times a week); going to airport only takes up 120km from the city centre - so unless you commute between the airport and sai kung..... then in that case you should have your own charger already
     
  10. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    That doesn't work at all. Despite what Beijing would like, we are not all the same and we all lead different lives. "Typical" is irrelevant. They need to stop people behaving in a selfish manner. My suggestions above would do it comfortably.
     
  11. Optic

    Optic Member

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    Yes or something like every driver gets 4 hours of free charging time per week. Which equates to about 1000km per week. After which, the cost should be paid (includes maintenance and SC build out cost). Fair usage is important as SC resource is scarce.

    Rough estimate, we have some 2000+ Model S now in HK and say 10% are uber. In a conservative case, they need to charge once in the afternoon and once they get off late at night or in morning, so that is 2 hours. They only charge and get out quickly. That makes for 200*2 or 400hours per day of charging needs. In HK, we have 42 super chargers right now, some cost more to use than others. Given we only use the chargers say 16 hours a day, that gives us 672 hours available in more prime time. A rough estimate is that 200 Uber Teslas would use ~60% of the SC capacity in each day.

    Using taxi guys refuelling habit as a baseline, I would guess uber chargers like to charge from 3-5pm and or <8am. I would take a guess these would show as the busiest time in IM Tesla's app.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in January, I would expect that Hopewell and Panda uber drivers will move towards Olympic/Cyberport/SP as parking fee is cheaper or free.

    Side note is, I am all for uber and I hope HK legalize them. They are making an honest living. They need a specific charging solution that does not piggy back off of consumers.
     
  12. MITE46

    MITE46 Member

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    I've been taking Uber all week, and today I got picked up in a Model S. I asked the driver how many uber Teslas there are, he said 30 or so. Do you ever have to wait to charge? No. How maybe times do you SC a day? 1, maybe 2 if long trips. How long do you stay at SC? Just enough time to fill up.

    I think SC for uber is a great idea.

    I'd love to learn more from the HK residents about lack of or difficulty of installing home chargers in their buildings. Please PM me if you can help me out!
     
  13. mchk

    mchk Member

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    Great research! I also think UBER for Teslas is fantastic. What a great way to give exposure to the car. Sure people see them around, but have they experienced the beauty of the car?

    I don't think the UBER driver is going to waste time sitting around in a SC for hours. While they are sitting, they are losing revenue, so they have incentive to fill up and GO.

    The problem is more likely the rude guy who parks his car, charges, and decides to spend the rest of his day out and comes back 6 hours later. I have my doubts the UBER driver is causing a problem.

    Also Tesla said if the SC's are all too full, we will build more!! That was part of their commitment to the car owner, they will build SCs to meet the demand.
     
  14. mchk

    mchk Member

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    Has anyone met or know any of the UBER Tesla drivers in Hong Kong? I'd love to speak to them.
     
  15. Optic

    Optic Member

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    Unfortunately That's not the case in Hong Kong. Our superchargers are always occupied. In Cali, the super chargers are less occupied and drivers might have home charging. You guys face issue only on Thanksgiving and Xmas holiday in tejon. Take a look at my pictures from this Saturday and also super charger availability today. The ones that are packed are the free ones and there is a queue at 3pm weekday. 11504d73a6127dd9107515c78fa8da61.jpg

    4e40b3ba01e660b8e82a811252733731.jpg

    Finally, it's easy to talk to uber driver, just go to a sc in the afternoon and turn on uber app. Two uber guys dropped by and turned off their uber once they arrived. They are Most likely the single guy wearing a blue tooth headset. So from Saturday calculation, 20% of the Tesla's there were uber.

    uploadfromtaptalk1451373454860.png
     

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  16. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    What is really annoying is when cars stay in supercharger spots, after they are done charging.

    I suggested this elsewhere already:

    Tesla Motors should put a display over each supercharging bay (on top of the charging stand). In simple red LED numbers, it should show "57%" or whatever the charging is, when a car is charging (maybe pulsating if flashing, steady light if not charging).

    If a car is plugged in, but not charging, it should show the time since charging stopped (and what the charging level is).

    If no car is in plugged in, it should show how long time has elapsed since last car was disconnected - just for info - and in case the parking spot is ICEd.

    This makes it easier to spot people that overstay - and makes it embarrassing for them to return to the car when it says "1:13" on the display meaning the car was charged 1:13 hours ago in this case. Also, they can't lie and say "my car just finished charging a few minutes ago".

    Issues would be, of course, if people set it to 50%, then change it from the app gradually, to 60, 70, 80 and so on, to "cheat the system" if they are too lazy to come back to move their car. The system could add the time up, when the same car is connected, and show the combined non-charging time.
     
  17. robin051

    robin051 Member

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    Brilliant idea I would say! The shame or face factor would very much discourage those selfish drivers. After all, those who managed to drive a Tesla reflect some sort of social status.
     
  18. jthtyu

    jthtyu Member

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    Dear Optic
    What is the name of the APP that shows all the superchargers in Hong Kong
    Is it available on iPAD?:rolleyes:
     
  19. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    Status/face or not - it will be a very transparent display (literally) of behaviour. No more hiding or lying. Use the ressources the best way, until some day the infrastructure is built out so much that charging is a non-issue.
     
  20. nghktom

    nghktom Member

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    Uber or not, Tesla is Tesla, and they have the rights to use the SC just like other non uber Tesla owner. The key is there are many Tesla owners (uber or not) are inconsiderate. They simply have the car plugged in and enjoy shopping , meal and/or movies. As I have mentioned in other posts, the only way to avoid this is to make the SC chargeable.

    For example, the first hour of use if FOC, the second hour is HKD50, the third and thereafter is HKD100.00. The revenue generated can allow Tesla to build more chargers and /or to employ more staff.

    With today's technology, i don't think it will be too difficult to attach e-payment device onto the existing SC.

    Suggest those who agree with me is to send email to Tesla and make them have this on their agenda.
     

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