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Uber self-driving car flipped here in AZ

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by azred, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. azred

    azred Member

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    I'll bet San Francisco officials are loving it. We seem to be the self-driving test capital with Intel, Uber, Google and probably others. It's fun to see the cars with their butt ugly lidars driving around -- and I see them almost every day. But there have been several accidents, although none as dramatic as this latest one. I guess the lidar rig made the car top heavy. BTW, it looks like it just tipped over, didn't flip as my thread title said.
     
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  2. acarlos1000

    acarlos1000 Member

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    • Informative x 2
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  3. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    #3 BluestarE3, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
    Have a picture of that?

    Edit: @acarlos1000 thanks for the link to the article. Looks like the other vehicle may have caused the accident.
     
  4. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    If you're an original poster you could at least do us the courtesy of telling us WHAT happened.

    In this case "a car failed to yield to the autonomous SUV and hit it, authorities said. The self-driving SUV rolled onto its side as a result crash."

    Neither the autonomous car nor it's handler are responsible for that crash.

    Of course there are several accidents. How could there not be in Arizona with all the lousy drivers down there with zero respect for the rules of the road.

    The last time I drove in Arizona I barely escaped with my life on multiple occasions.

    It's definitely the person place to test autonomous cars though because it will gets it fill of "stupid things people do".
     
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  5. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #5 Tam, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
    The article reported that the other didn't yield Uber and tipped it on its passenger side.

    I hope some day, the automation can see far enough to predict cars that won't yield so it can drive defensively and avoid being a target for other aggressive cars.
     
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  6. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    One big problem with autonomous systems, they currently do not make eye contact or predict other car's behavior based on experience.
     
  7. Deans

    Deans Member

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    How is this even news? Somebody hit an uber by failing to yield. Big deal.
     
  8. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    They may only be average drivers at the moment, but give it a couple of years and they'll be better than average. ;)
     
  9. Gwgan

    Gwgan Almost a wagon

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    The self driving car should be able to react to circumstance and not rigidly follow the right of way rules to avoid or minimize the crash. That's what a competent and aware driver would do, but maybe not this guy "there was a passenger in the self-driving car. The person was behind the wheel but it's unclear whether they were controlling the SUV or not."
     
  10. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    If I hit everybody that failed to yield, I'd be in 2-3 crashes each day. That's if I don't go into OC or LA counties.

    When riding a motorcycle, if you cannot predict what other drivers will do before they act, you don't live long.
     
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  11. Deans

    Deans Member

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    Yeah, but how do you know it was preventable? My wife was hit by someone who ran a stop sign. There was no way for her to stop it as the she had no clear view of the driver until it was too late.
    I myself hit a motorcycle by failing to yield to him many years ago. I turned left and he was coming head on in the opposite direction. It was dusk and I didn't see him at all - just blended in with the parked cars on the side. Totally my fault of course. He ran in to the right side of my car and I don't think there was anyway for him to prevent it. Very fortunately, no injuries.

    This story doesn't give enough detail to say whether a good defensive driver could have prevented the accident. Without such details, the article is pretty pointless, imho.
     
  12. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    When I approach an intersection on a motorcycle and a driver is facing me in the left lane or turn bay, with or without their turn signal on, with or without them being stopped, with or without a red left turn bay light, I naturally assume you will pull right out in front of me even though my headlight is on, and I'm wearing bright reflective clothes.

    Before the Cellphone and Car Entertainment Systems, I'd just cover my brakes and look for a way out. Today, with massive decay in auto driver skills we have, I slow and weave so my headlight appears to flicker. If your head doesn't move, I slow more and more until I get to speed I think I can stop in.

    That's how bad people drive today, and it will be worse tomorrow, and worse Monday, etc.

    You and the thousands of other left turn offenders would not have hit ME most likely today unless you were focused on killing me, then I'd only give you a 50/50 chance.

    With cars, if I cannot see, I do not proceed. I slow when it's foggy, I look WAY ahead in traffic, I don't use a cellphone when driving, or eat, or play with my willy (well, not anyMORE). Again, even a modern driver has a hard time hitting me.

    This is what is necessary to have a virtually zero crash rate today. If an autonomous vehicle does not act that way, they will crash just like most drivers do.
     
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  13. Gwgan

    Gwgan Almost a wagon

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    You are right, I was assuming the person behind the wheel could have seen the oncoming car from the side in time to react which is not likely at speed. The autonomous car should have much better simultaneous 360 views than your wife and be able to distinguish a moving motorcycle even if it were behind an A pillar to the driver or blending in with a similarly colored background. This sounds like a person driving did not react to what a computer would have seen happening. If this were a Tesla we would know from a company statement within 48 hours but you can bet Uber will be publicly silent.
     
  14. M0DEL³

    M0DEL³ Dilluting Kool-Aid with Realism daily.

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    Reality check... they are nowhere close to being "average drivers at the moment", additionally I'll give you 5 to 1 odds that in 2 years they will still not be capable of general full-spectrum driving at the level of an "average driver".
     
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  15. Deans

    Deans Member

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    You sound like you are in the top 1% of all drivers. And I think that is the goal of autonomous driving. But that will still take some time. First it has to get the basics and then get better at avoiding other people's mistakes.

    My accident occurred in 1996, when few people used day light running lights. I think I would have seen him if he had his head light on, but still no excuse for me to miss him. I didn't wear or need contacts back then, but now my eye sight is horrible (-7.5). I wonder if my eye sight had already started getting bad by that point, but I didn't realize it.

    My wife's accident, however, was truly unavoidable without driving very strangely. She was on a 40mph road with no stops (for her). There was t-intersection that had a stop. However, there is a concrete obstruction so that you could only see a car when it was within 5-10 feet of the stop sign. The other driver was presumably on her phone and just drove straight through the sign at 30 mph and hit the back-right of my wife's car. The only way my wife could prevent the accident would be to drive at 10mph on a 40mph road or stop at every t-intersection where she didn't have a stop sign. Both of those cases would open her up to being hit from behind from a different careless driver.

    I think 80% or 90% of all accidents could be prevented by an excellent defensive driver. But some are not.
    I don't know where Uber's accident fit in here. Without that info, I feel like the Uber car should be given the benefit of the doubt.
    The way the news story spun it at the beginning of the video was off the mark, again, imo.
     
  16. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    That was sort of the MC rider's fault. Mandatory daylight headlights have been around for a very, very long time, at least 1980. Some started earlier, but none had OFF switches on the headlights in 1980.
     
  17. acarlos1000

    acarlos1000 Member

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  18. pilotSteve

    pilotSteve Member

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    Points out again that the most difficult and hazardous element in the autonomous driving chain is..... human drivers.
     
  19. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    How do you know? That's the first thing I would teach a driverless system to do, and for instance, Tesla has cameras in it to see the head and eyes of other drivers.
     
  20. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #20 Tam, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
    It is a big deal because in an old youtube posted 2 years ago, at around 5:20, Bosch driverless system was able to detect fast moving cars and predict their trajectories and wouldn't move if there's a possibility of collision:





    [​IMG]

    The big news is: After 2 years, Uber system is still so rudimentary and behind the curve in machine calculated trajectory predictions.
     

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