Ugh. Another Model S fire - 2013-11-06

[leilanimunter]

I am putting as many miles on mine as I can to help that ratio!!!

haha way to take one for the team! i will do my part as well!

 

[MikeL]

Why doesn't Mexico count? If it'd been an ICE and caught fire, would that similarly get a pass as counting as a fire?

Such abuse should count only as points in the car's favor because that guy would almost certainly been killed in another vehicle. I say "should" knowing full well that it has to count statistically. I just won't count it myself. ML

 

[carrerascott]

Elon needs to give a simple example: USA Model S fires 11/6 = 1, injuries = 0 :: ICE USA fires = x, injuries = y

There are a million ICE cars for every Tesla (I have no idea of the actual ratio), so comparing one day may not be the best. Would be better to say 3 in the last year, vs x ICE cars in the last year. Comparing on one day and extrapolating may make it look very bad.

 

[Sus]

Here's an official statement from Tesla:

We have been in contact with the driver, who was not injured and believes the car saved his life. Our team is on its way to Tennessee to learn more about what happened. We will provide more information when we’re able to do so.

Thanks Doug. Can you post the link to the official statement?

 

[Liz G]

I am putting as many miles on mine as I can to help that ratio!!!

Pitching in here too. ~26,000 miles, 0 fires

 

[Cinematechs]

The fires aren't the main focal points here. We have to look at how safe this vehicle is. Of all the known Tesla crashes, how many serious injuries or fatalities have we seen? In all 3 fires, has anyone been hurt? How long did it take for the car to ignite? It's not time to sell your S nor the stocks. Maybe we should look at these unfortunate accidents as testimonies to the S' safety.

 

[doug]

Thanks Doug. Can you post the link to the official statement?

The link would be to my post. That's straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[highfalutintodd]

I've seen exactly one other Model S "in the wild" here in Nashville in the six months that I've owned my car yet there are apparently enough around here that in that time some drunk idiot managed to smash one into a pole and another one catches on fire.

Craziness.

 

[ausdma]

The link would be to my post. That's straight from the horse's mouth.

Guess that explains why I couldn't find it. Did you speak with him personally?

 

[AlMc]

I've seen exactly one other Model S "in the wild" here in Nashville in the six months that I've owned my car yet there are apparently enough around here that in that time some drunk idiot managed to smash one into a pole and another one catches on fire.

Craziness.

To add some levity to the discussion: Solution: Ban sales of Teslas in Tennessee!

 

[stopcrazypp]

That's really splitting hairs. It's presumably a US car (since they're not shipping to Mexico) a bit over the boarder on a vacation trip. I'm pretty sure Tesla counts all miles driven...not just those in the US.

Well, it's different enough that there's no NHTSA questioning or investigation. Plus from the reports I have seen Tesla refers to the customer as in Mexico, not just vacationing there (not that it matters, as an ICE car under the same circumstances would not be counted in US fire statistics either). Although the OP says he's not including it for other reasons (not the geography).

 

[doug]

Guess that explains why I couldn't find it. Did you speak with him personally?

Sorry, not "him". I had email with Tesla Spokeswoman Liz Jarvis-Shean. It's their official statement soon after learning about the accident.

 

[yobigd20]

Nice!

The drivers quote "this car saved my life"
Aka he was involved in some form of accident

I don't think this statement means a crash. Tesla's statement also avoided mentioning the term 'crash', but rather they were 'sending a team out to figure out what happened." Sounds more like nobody knows why yet and that it was more of a weird spontaneous event if they need to send a team out to learn more about it...need more detail!!

 

[FredTMC]

If statistically fire becomes on par with ICE fire frequency, then Tesla could engineer some fire suppression. Tesla is superb at engineering solutions. Tesla probably already dismissed suppression in favor of firewall and venting techniques discussed previously.

That being said, I can see a foam retardant (think airplane runway foam or halon or water/coolant deludge). The major advantage is that batteries don't explode like gasoline. Gasoline is combustable. These batteries aren't combustible and as a result, it's probably conceivable to deploy a suppression system.

 

[FlasherZ]

I had a 1979 Honda Accord that had 4 engine fires across 3 different engines. Does that count for something?

Did you all hear about the ICE car fire in IL over the past week or so? You haven't heard of any of the tens that have occurred? There was no mention in any news articles at all of a local car fire that happened along US 50 just a couple of weeks ago. Why wasn't there speculation that the car manufacturer was going out of business as a result?

We don't hear about ICE car fires in the news anymore because - well - we've just learned to live with them. S*&t happens, the owner finds a way home and calls his insurance company or his local car broker. They don't even make it on the news anymore, but they do happen with great frequency. Garages catch fire shortly after ICE cars return home. I see at least one car every other month along the side of an Interstate highway or so. A local homeowner has a new home after his home burned about 2 years ago - car just caught fire 10 minutes after he returned from work.

Bottom line: ANY FORM OF STORED ENERGY IS BY ITS VERY NATURE DANGEROUS. Gas tanks explode. Propane/CNG tanks explode. Hydrogen explodes. Diesel will burn. Lithium reacts with air to burn. The only thing you can do is design it to be as safe as possible and protect the occupants when something does go wrong.

Tesla fires (as every other manufacturer's fires) will continue. I'll be concerned when I see a case of a Tesla spontaneously catching fire without a crash/road hazard. I'll be concerned when I see a case of a Tesla failing to contain a fire that endangers the passenger compartment. Until then, I won't judge the car based on other fires.

From a fire standpoint, I'm still more concerned about the quality / health of the average driver's home wiring than I am the car.

Yes, the anti-Tesla forces are going to try and trumpet this, but the truth is that these events are to be expected regardless of technology type and regardless of manufacturer.

 

[airj1012]

I'm not sure that the market will like this incident, but I'm not too worried about the car itself. There have been other major accidents where the impact was on the front of the car and no fires were started. I believe there is another good explanation for this but I think we're a ways away from know the details. I trust the Tesla will look into all of these incidents and be able to resolve any design issues.

Past front-end accidents posted on TMC
#1 - http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19373-Model-S-accidents?p=393768&viewfull=1#post393768
#2 - http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ccidents/page4?p=413004&viewfull=1#post413004

 

[Convert2013]

If statistically fire becomes on par with ICE fire frequency, then Tesla could engineer some fire suppression. Tesla is superb at engineering solutions. Tesla probably already dismissed suppression in favor of firewall and venting techniques discussed previously.

That being said, I can see a foam retardant (think airplane runway foam or halon or water/coolant deludge). The major advantage is that batteries don't explode like gasoline. Gasoline is combustable. These batteries aren't combustible and as a result, it's probably conceivable to deploy a suppression system.

Hi Fred. Both cars and airplanes have flammability requirements for design in zones that are susceptible to fire. For airplanes requirements are obviously more strict- suppression reqd in areas with sources (engine, APU) or areas that can introduce a source of fire (passenger compt, cargo, and lavs). Hand-held fire extinguishers are used for control of fires where passengers can see the fires (lavs, passenger compt), but automatic suppression is reqd for the engine, APU, and cargo areas. Halon is used as the suppression agent. For cars suppression is not required, only analysis and test to show flammability reqmnts have been met with design. Lithion-ion fires burn so violently if there is a thermal runaway hardly any sensible volume of onboard agent, whatever it may be, will likely not work.

 

[Doug_G]

I had a 1979 Honda Accord that had 4 engine fires across 3 different engines. Does that count for something?

Yes, of course. Car fires are commonplace, which is why you almost never hear about it on the news unless there's a multiple fatality involved. I've come across burning cars on the road on more than a few occasions. In fact I have taken a picture of a burning minivan from inside my Model S.

We have to put things in perspective. Cars catch fire - to the tune of 30 an hour in the USA. Statistically speaking, it's pretty much a certainty that every time there's been a Tesla on fire there have been multiple ICE cars on fire at the exact same time.

 

[Trnsl8r]

To add some levity to the discussion: Solution: Ban sales of Teslas in Tennessee!

I'm sure they have some dealers' association or something hard at work on doing exactly that...

 

[GravityPull]

Would be cool if there was a thread that provided photos and videos of many Internal Combustible Engines fires that occur each day?