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[UK] 2021.4.x

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#962
VanillaAir_UK said:
A mixed bag with a drive of two halves, literally. 2021.4.15.12

Outbound, driving east into the sun, dry, but wet roads, some standing water, with the roads often totally obscured from glare, the car was as it should have been. Not a single collision avoidance warning - same drive, similar conditions last week, I had a handful of them and the car was as nervous as nellie on TACC. Today I was following another vehicle a few times so TACC at their mercy, and did notice that the car seemed to serge a bit more than in the past - a bit like my early experiences of TACC/AP when the car seemed to either full throttle or full brake and not smoothly transition as it accelerated or slowed. I did notice many human drivers cutting white lines today, or overshooting stop lines - maybe it was the glare. On one of these occasions, when on a 50 mph A road, I was on TACC and had to move over the centre line as a car was overhanging our lane slightly. I was expecting the car to complain, but it didn't until I had actually started to pass the car, at which point it slammed on. It was far to late to have done anything useful and as I was several meters from the stationary vehicle, totally unnecessary.

Coming back heading west, most of the drive was M25/M3. It started off dry. Car took the outer lane on M25/M3 interchange which was not a lane you would normally use unless busy - the car had pretty much the interchange to itself at that point. For some reason, the car disengaged auto steer. No fanfare. I suspect I may have been holding on too tight at the point that it was choosing to go left rather than straight on. Inability to get speed limit right on merge (its a long 50mph) hasn't changed but I was on manual 50 limit. Someone is going to get caught out by that one day as its an average speed check and car thinks much of the merge is a 70. Back on auto steer/NoA.

I then hit a cloud burst. Wipers worked really well although when rain suddenly stopped, it was overly long before wipers calmed down. However, the traffic then started to bunch, road was soaked from the cloudburst and loads of spray being kicked up by the cars. The wipers just did not wipe, to the point that had you left them auto wipe, you could not see out of the window. For anyone not knowing how to manually trigger the wipers, this would have been a hugely dangerous scenario. #failbigtime I'll see if I can salvage some front camera footage to see what view AP had - visualisations looked correct and car behaved itself nicely even though NoA was off due to bad weather detected.

I then came across my junction where I would normally turn off. Nav told me to come off but NoA was I believe (I wasn't actually monitoring the single/double blue line) still inoperative which was fine as on this occasion, I decided to go to the next junction. NoA did not try and take me off at that junction - its 4 lane at that point, then lane turns into off ramp so 3 lanes between off and on ramps, then back to 4 lanes. So I was in lane 2, which became lane 1 through the junction. The car then started to behave exactly as if it was on the off ramp, except I was on the motorway. The car started slowing and told me that NoA was about to end. At which point, the car started turning NoA on and off - rapidly alternating between the single blue and double blue lane lines in the visualisation. I had to manually take over speed control. Basically the car behaved according to its nav directions and not its actual road position and direction. This is latest nav map.

The rest of the journey was uneventful, although autosteer did turn itself off on off ramp earlier than I would have liked - again, I'm probably holding steering too tight as the car makes an ever tighter (uncomfortably tight) turn on the circular off ramp.

So unlike last weeks near perfect journey on 4.15.10, this weeks on 4.15.12 was a completely different story. But as a Tesla owner, you get use to the cars inconsistent behaviour, so not entirely unexpected.
Click to expand...
It’s quite unsettling to find that software ‘bug fixes’ seem to be continuing in a spiral of giving birth to new bugs.
I fear the problem is that too much effort is going into weeding out FSD/AP problems. I’m no expert but I have written a lot of software in my time. From my perspective the problem is that there is no simple, stable baseline starting point. A simple non-smart cruise and speed limiter is where it should start. The driver has full control but the car travels at the speed set. No more, no less.
In the Tesla, TACC is the starting point. It’s too aware and it doesn’t work properly or consistently. it recognises speed speed limits but ignores them (mostly, maybe) When AP is engaged it might override TACC and change speed up or down as per the recognised limit, or it might not. The integration of the two, if there is any, is completely inconsistent and cannot be relied upon.
I like many others have been through a good many software updates. Some gave rise to slowing for bends, some took it away, and some it seems, incorporated it into NoA. At one junction, I’m taken off nicely, slowed for for a nasty left hander and brought to a stop at a junction.
The slip road on the other side of the D/C is a can of worms; exits too late makes no attempt to slow for the left hander. At least those two junctions are consistent!
I don’t suppose I’m alone, but when I’m on anything auto, my right foot is always hovering over the throttle so that I can negate the pointless braking episodes. I’ve never done that in any other car whilst in cruise.
In conclusion, auto anything doesn’t have a stable baseline and therefore anything beyond it cannot be consistent
I’ve owned 3 other cars with smart cruise. They all focussed solely on the vehicle in front and worked perfectly.
I welcome V11 and new map software, but it has to be chalk and cheese to the existing. I sincerely hope they wrote it from the ground up.
 
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#963
Dilly said:
It’s quite unsettling to find that software ‘bug fixes’ seem to be continuing in a spiral of giving birth to new bugs.
I fear the problem is that too much effort is going into weeding out FSD/AP problems. I’m no expert but I have written a lot of software in my time. From my perspective the problem is that there is no simple, stable baseline starting point. A simple non-smart cruise and speed limiter is where it should start. The driver has full control but the car travels at the speed set. No more, no less.
In the Tesla, TACC is the starting point. It’s too aware and it doesn’t work properly or consistently. it recognises speed speed limits but ignores them (mostly, maybe) When AP is engaged it might override TACC and change speed up or down as per the recognised limit, or it might not. The integration of the two, if there is any, is completely inconsistent and cannot be relied upon.
I like many others have been through a good many software updates. Some gave rise to slowing for bends, some took it away, and some it seems, incorporated it into NoA. At one junction, I’m taken off nicely, slowed for for a nasty left hander and brought to a stop at a junction.
The slip road on the other side of the D/C is a can of worms; exits too late makes no attempt to slow for the left hander. At least those two junctions are consistent!
I don’t suppose I’m alone, but when I’m on anything auto, my right foot is always hovering over the throttle so that I can negate the pointless braking episodes. I’ve never done that in any other car whilst in cruise.
In conclusion, auto anything doesn’t have a stable baseline and therefore anything beyond it cannot be consistent
I’ve owned 3 other cars with smart cruise. They all focussed solely on the vehicle in front and worked perfectly.
I welcome V11 and new map software, but it has to be chalk and cheese to the existing. I sincerely hope they wrote it from the ground up.
Click to expand...

Exactly, SDLC isn't hard but Musky suffers from not invented here syndrome.
 
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#964
Why do Tesla Break things after they have fixed them? Been driving all over the country this week. Before updating to 15.12 wipers were working well, and the phantom braking seemed to have vanished.

Now on 15.12, and phantom braking is back, particularly at the off slip on motorways. Also AP gets is knickers in a twist when trying to exit the motorway, saying lane change not available, and cancelling the indicator.

Had to turn the wipers to Manual control as they were trying to clean a dry screen yesterday...

E
 
#965
Let’s have some good news! 160 miles yesterday on 2021.4.18 in very variable rain conditions. Wipers worked near perfectly. Only slight criticism was that in very light rain when the rain was more of an annoyance than an obstruction to vision the wipers didn’t always come on. In manual mode I would have given an occasional sweep to clear an annoyance. Overall it seemed to me that .18 has fixed the wipers - at least in daylight conditions.
 
#966
Dilly said:
I don’t suppose I’m alone, but when I’m on anything auto, my right foot is always hovering over the throttle so that I can negate the pointless braking episodes. I’ve never done that in any other car whilst in cruise.
Click to expand...

Yes, plus one eye on the rear view mirror to know if I can safely let the car finish its 'tantrum', or if I need to take over and how quickly I need to intervene. Before I am accused of putting myself and other road users in a dangerous situation, If I'm heading into a situation where I know the car is likely to have a tantrum and I will be too close to others, especially following vehicles, I revert to manual control.

But this is not a way that people should be having to drive. And the inconsistency of how events play out from one release to another is not helped by having no feedback from Tesla as to what has changed. In the past, I have driven knowing that the radar can see better than me in some situations (I have better than 6/6 [20/20] uncorrected vision), but today, when the wipers were not wanting to wipe, I had no idea whether the radar was even active in this release so didn't know how far I could wait before manually overriding the wipers.
 
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#967
2021.4.18 for me brings no obvious "on the road" changes. A couple of similar spurious warnings for steering correction as before. Wipers worked well (daytime) as before. Erratic TACC in traffic as before. I can't say I was expecting anything notable and that has indeed proved to be the case!
 
#970
Killer_Catz said:
Out of curiosity, what do people have the update option set to? Standard or Advanced. I have Standard and got 4.18 recently. No sign of the maps update.
Click to expand...

Maps updating has no connection to other software updates ... you get them when you get them ... and they are not usually announced either. I remain unconvinced that Standard or Advanced makes a jot of difference. Sometimes I'm early sometimes I'm late despite being on "Advanced".
 
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#971
VanillaAir_UK said:
I then hit a cloud burst. Wipers worked really well although when rain suddenly stopped, it was overly long before wipers calmed down. However, the traffic then started to bunch, road was soaked from the cloudburst and loads of spray being kicked up by the cars. The wipers just did not wipe, to the point that had you left them auto wipe, you could not see out of the window. For anyone not knowing how to manually trigger the wipers, this would have been a hugely dangerous scenario. #failbigtime I'll see if I can salvage some front camera footage to see what view AP had - visualisations looked correct and car behaved itself nicely even though NoA was off due to bad weather detected.
Click to expand...

Well autopilot had a surprisingly good view of things. I've put a 30 second clip below of which during the first 19 seconds or so, had I not been manually intervening or driving on Autopilot I would have been driving highly compromised of forward vision. The video does very little justice of how limited my forward visibility was unless I manually intervened. It was not until the final 1/3rd of the clip that the auto wipers were operating at an interval that I was able to let auto wipers perform on their own. All of the wipes in the first 2/3rds were manually initiated - button on end of stalk. Maybe the wipers were being particularly slow as I was on AP? I would still kind of like to see where I was going and having to monitor.

In this clip, it was not raining. The poor road conditions are due to vehicle spray from a prior cloud burst that I had just driven through. Ironically, the wipers coped admirably with the cloud burst, just not the aftermath. Even though NoA was apparently unavailable due to poor weather, the auto lane change at the end was performed flawlessly so I guess only the lane change predictions were restricted.

Finally, whilst editing the video from a couple of adjacent TeslaCam clips, I noticed that the gap between clips seems to be significantly reduced - to the point that at end of the videos first caption it transitions to the next TeslaCam clip, yet it shows only as a small glitch rather than several seconds of missed footage.

 
Last edited:
#978
Tesla are computers on wheels and the one thing about computers is that they never run the same way twice, everything microprocessor controlled suffers from glitches as they react to so many variables, power surges, interaction with other sub routines etc and always the best method to fix is to switch off and restart - so a reboot.
Updates fix (usually) the intended fix to something underperforming but as all software communicates with each other the programmer cant foresee all scenarios in every situation and tech is only as good as the programmer - so fixing one thing can break another.

We all use tech in different ways but its not possible to be able to have software/firmware infinitely user variable as it makes further updates even more difficult.
Updates are also restricted by the hardware - as time goes by hardware is improved but manufacturers have to be able to support legacy systems for many years so software becomes extremely complex addressing hardware versions and software specific to certain equipment.

Every car I have ever had in 47 years of driving has had "foibles or Characteristics" that created disappointment with the car, You have to remember Tesla are babies in the automotive world and are trying to do something never tried or envisaged before except in Sci Fi and the big boys have been slow to respond - indeed their first reaction was Tesla will go bust, they sat back and continued to produce what they have always done and only in the last couple of years have they accepted a big change is coming - driven by Tesla, but once all manufacturers have a common goal and ICE is phased out then development and consistency will be established in both hardware and software.

Ultimately the driver is in charge - assistance systems will always be that - assistance, personally I enjoy driving and I'm not looking for a car that will drive itself (even though i have the FSD package - its novel and impressive - but not something i would rely on) - we have trains, taxis and busses for that.

My vision is firmly on the long term development not the short term fixes and re-fixes - we are in "interesting times" as the Chinese would say.
 
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