Wiki UK and Ireland Supercharger Site News

[qwickshot]

What would happen if Shell only allowed VAG cars to refuel at their petrol stations? This is exactly what's happening at present with Superchargers.

The difference is VAG owners didn’t pay for Shell’s roll out, Tesla owners did pay for Tesla’s roll out.

If VAG spun up their own network that only worked with VAG cars, paid for by VAG owners, I wouldn’t have an issue with that.

And no, Ionity was not paid for by VAG owners, they were compelled to dump a load of money into it because of the diesel gate scandal settlement. A load of public money also got dumped into it so that network can’t be exclusive because I also paid for it as well from my taxes.

It’s pretty obvious to anyone that the super charger network is only being sustained out of money being made from the car sales. All of the other network operators are haemorrhaging cash at the moment and they all charge more than Tesla, a lot more in some cases. The Tesla network is bigger, better maintained and cheaper than everyone else, it’s clear what is enabling that.

Like you say though, Tesla are about to get legislated out of their business model shortly in a lot of countries so they are just getting ahead of it in their own terms. However it’s going to suck in the U.K. because the network is creaking at the seems during peak times already, it’s just not good enough in some places and the stalls are not designed for other vehicles.

It also baffles me that new installs going in are not designed for other vehicles still given the impending opening up. All that need to do is spread them out so one tombstone covers two spaces and they can be used from both sides without blocking a stall, it’s really not a difficult problem to solve.

I don’t think rapid charging is something the government needs to be putting money into (slow charging in hard to reach areas, yes!). What they should be concentrating on is getting the DNOs to sort their networks out. They are pretty much the bottle neck for getting chargers in the right places everywhere. There is no shortage of people willing to build charging hubs at the moment. The other area of focus should be rules against squatting on sites, locking out DNO capacity that isn’t being used.

Just jumping back to the topic at hand, is there any progress at Ferrybridge? I could really do with that being online in the next couple of weeks.

I’m driving from East Anglia to East Yorkshire and back again and frankly your in no man’s land up there once you get past Markhem More (Shell/Instavolt) or Grantham (Tesla) on the A1 which makes the charging really sub optimal.

 

[Mrklaw]

mixed on the whole opening thing


- DNO and power upgrades likely tied to non-exclusive chargers so if Tesla wants in, they need to be flexible
- we still get the conveninence of plug and charge
- oddly we’d be faster than non-teslas as they need the app which works like pod-point to enable charge so at least a couple of minutes extra faffing for the same amount of charge
- definitely blocking coming up as the tesla chargers are tightly designed for tesla charge ports. Even I don’t park close enough sometimes for the short cable, and plenty of cars have the port in totally the wrong place. Maybe they’ll redesign
- if they open up SCs, I need better support for other rapids in the satnav to help balance things out
- I get more choice in my next car

 

[Lockey]

Every one and their dog seems to want new DNO connections at the moment so I suspect a lot of the delays are down to the electrical infrastructure needing updating. It's looking like I need to detour via Ferrybridge on the way home from Hartlepool next week so it would be REALLY handy if the new superchargers were online.

 

[Mrklaw]

Seems logical to me where there are already close connections to good lines, fit those now as soon as possible. Then add in chargers based on expected demand. Unlimited capital expenditure is unreasonable but if the infrastructure is there you can do maybe 10-15 units and then bolt on 10 more regularly over coming years

Then those MSAs that aren’t near connections you prioritise based on location (gap filling, known traffic patterns) and start a multi year plan to get those upgraded.

you want to set a goal like a rapid hub with 25-50 chargers mo more than 50 miles from where you are, and all key locations upgraded with HV lines for future and continued expansion

 

[Fursty Ferret]

Depending the layout, if they open the UK superchargers to other brands that means that on a full bank of 12 V3, it's possible for only 6 cars maximum to charge if they are using the wrong side. With funky layouts that can drop to a maximum of 4 or 5 cars.

I doubt Tesla is going to be asking for 2-3x the normal rate from non-Tesla owners so in the long run they'll lose money and piss off their existing customer base.

 

[browellm]

Tesla owners did pay for Tesla’s roll out.

Tesla received massive state subsidies in the US. Don't kid yourself that their network was bought and paid for by owners.

 

[SpareHeadOne]

Tesla received massive state subsidies in the US. Don't kid yourself that their network was bought and paid for by owners.

Tesla has had $2.4bn in loans and subsidies, it paid the loans back ten years early.

I'm not sure how you would really go about separating the SC network from vehicle development and production expansion, but I don't think it's unreasonable to argue that the bulk of the network is paid for by owners - don't forget that "owners" also includes customers of other Tesla products like the Megapacks and Powerwalls.

For context GM has had $50bn of subsidies in the same period.

 

[GRiLLA]

Depending the layout, if they open the UK superchargers to other brands that means that on a full bank of 12 V3, it's possible for only 6 cars maximum to charge if they are using the wrong side. With funky layouts that can drop to a maximum of 4 or 5 cars.

I doubt Tesla is going to be asking for 2-3x the normal rate from non-Tesla owners so in the long run they'll lose money and piss off their existing customer base.

If they are all wrong sided you would be able to use 11 of the 12 bays.

I wonder what the experience really is in Norway and other countries, I've not heard of punch ups while Bjorn is charging. People with wonky Audis or Porsche will still prefer other chargers with longer cables. I cant see how it would be possible to queue for multiple spaces, or even to queue for the wrong side practically. I think it'll largely settle down to be an unpopular place to charge if your car isn't configured well.

 

[Cantonalegod]

Tesla received massive state subsidies in the US. Don't kid yourself that their network was bought and paid for by owners.

This is the UK part of the forum though.

How much in subsidies did Tesla get over here to build their network?

 

[NewbieT]

Plug in car grant (or whatever the name is/was) £2500 then £1500.

Let’s say 65,000 Teslas at £1500 = £100m+ in UK gov money.

Yes, not ring fenced for charging, but Tesla still benefiting from public money. Is Tesla benefiting or are owners, good point.

 

[jimbo_hippo]

This is the UK part of the forum though.

How much in subsidies did Tesla get over here to build their network?

Probably also worth noting that its more than likely that subsidies would be available to anyone prepared to have a bash even if the Uk is/was offering subsidies. Subsidies aren’t like bailouts. They tend to be available on a level playing field. So Tesla getting subsidies, in any country, is most likely them taking a slice of the action under the same terms as anyone else. no evidence here so it’s purely me thinking out loud but that’s generally how government subsidies work, corruption excepted.

it’s like when Tesla bashers were banging on about Tesla selling credits. It was available to everyone it’s just that Tesla were racking them up and didn’t need to use them to keep ICE lines afloat. What They were selling was the same credits available to anyone. They companies buying them just weren’t making enough EVs (the whole point of the scheme) to get enough without buying them off Tesla.

 

[Js1977]

Plug in car grant (or whatever the name is/was) £2500 then £1500.

Let’s say 65,000 Teslas at £1500 = £100m+ in UK gov money.

Yes, not ring fenced for charging, but Tesla still benefiting from public money. Is Tesla benefiting or are owners, good point.

That thought/assumption is a bit twisted though. It was the person buying the car that got the grant.

 

[WannabeOwner]

How much in subsidies did Tesla get over here to build their network?

Dunno about UK, but state money has been available for "Open to all" chargers. That precluded Tesla proprietary plug. One reason for Tesla opening up now would be in order TO get that state aid.

 

[Fursty Ferret]

If they are all wrong sided you would be able to use 11 of the 12 bays.

If the wrong-sided cars are evenly spaced then that knocks every other bay out of commission to Tesla drivers, but ironically leaves it available to another non-Tesla vehicle.

 

[roadcred]

Access to new sites and power. We shouldn't be thinking about other cars using the existing network, maybe a few of the newer larger sites like shopping centers, but generally the network is going to grow far faster than it has before.

Otherwise we would be in a problem, Tesla's are growing fast and all the major opportunities for new sites will be gifted to competitors.

You have too much faith. Government Ministers know absolutely nothing about EVs or EV charging. Some Conservative Party sponsor has mentioned to Boris that his wife should be able to use a supercharger to charge her Jag.....and then this is what happens?

 

[roadcred]

Every one and their dog seems to want new DNO connections at the moment so I suspect a lot of the delays are down to the electrical infrastructure needing updating. It's looking like I need to detour via Ferrybridge on the way home from Hartlepool next week so it would be REALLY handy if the new superchargers were online.

Updating the whole of the DNO infrastructure needs replaced, from getting new connections to local infrastructure preventing everybody who has solar or wind from exporting at will. Sort that and they would sort the power problems without investing in large nuclear.

 

[Washout]

LOL yes, it's inconceivable that a company that made hay from massive subsidies in their home country would use that success to fund further expansion at home and abroad.

What an odd rebuttal. Have you got anything....better?

Can you quantify "made hay" for those interested, as well as when the hay was made and quantify what the subsidies were when the hay was being made?

My elderly memory is not what it was, but I seem to recall the US subsidies tailing off before, or around the time that Tesla first made a profit (hay)....2017/18 or so?

 

[Derek25]

You have too much faith. Government Ministers know absolutely nothing about EVs or EV charging. Some Conservative Party sponsor has mentioned to Boris that his wife should be able to use a supercharger to charge her Jag.....and then this is what happens?

I can’t see how Tesla opening up the network has anything to do with subsidies or government. Tesla was the only game in town when it started. Manufacturers and other networks are now catching up and could overtake Tesla in future. This is about competition for the business of Tesla and other drivers and about competition for the best sites. Gridserve Exeter is a case in point. I’ll be stopping there on my way to Cornwall rather than at Darts Farm. It’s a taste of the future unless Tesla opens up and expands.

 

[gangzoom]

lSome Conservative Party sponsor has mentioned to Boris that his wife should be able to use a supercharger to charge her Jag.....and then this is what happens?

Isn't this how ALL governments work to one degree or another .

 

[gangzoom]

I doubt Tesla is going to be asking for 2-3x the normal rate from non-Tesla owners so in the long run they'll lose money and piss off their existing customer base.

It's far more likely in the long run Tesla will get easier access to get signs offs required for more SC sites, get free 'advertising' for other EVs using 'Tesla' charging sites - Companies pay good money for any opportunity to have their Logo in your vision regardless of what you are doing, having a TESLA logo in your face whilst sitting in your VAG car is 'priceless' in most other settings, and ofcourse increase revenue from charging.