[UK centred discussion] The cat is out of the bag. True FSD will never happen for cars below HW4

[johnnycnote]

So you believe Elon claims...

Let's pause for a minute and remind ourselves that FSD means "Full Self Driving". This is what was sold to consumers. Here. In Europe. I'm not a lawyer but this is misleading.

If FSD was indeed ready or safer, Tesla would put their money where their mouth is and file FSD as truly autonomous Level 3, with the liability that ensues.
The fact that they are still years away from this, while other manufacturers such as Mercedes & Volvo will release models in 2023, beating Tesla to it, says it all.

FSD is the name that was given to the product, not what it actually does. And, if you read the fine print, it's not misleading. To me, it was very clear when I moved forward with my M3 that actual "Full Self Driving" was not available, would not be available soon, and it might never be available

Having said that, no one else comes close to what Tesla is doing with autonomy

 

[lowtek]

The fact that they are still years away from this, while other manufacturers such as Mercedes & Volvo will release models in 2023, beating Tesla to it, says it all.

Please look at the restrictions put in place for Mercedes with their new Nevada certification...

The DRIVE PILOT system is officially certified to operate on “suitable freeway sections” in Nevada in high-traffic density situations. It can operate at speeds up to 40 MPH.

I actually hope somebody does give Tesla a run for their money on FSD, competition is great for innovation!

 

[Ant M3]

Biggest car buying mistake I’ve ever made. I half believed the hype in 2019 and am getting more and more grumpy about the fact that I feel misled (or a fool). FSD was what was promised …. What a con !

 

[lowtek]

Biggest car buying mistake I’ve ever made. I half believed the hype in 2019 and am getting more and more grumpy about the fact that I feel misled (or a fool). FSD was what was promised …. What a con !

It would be more palatable if they called it "FSD (beta)" at least most consumers know what "beta" means ... unfinished.

But I don't think it's intentionally a con, I think Tesla underestimated the edge cases. It does what its supposed to 95% of the time, it's the 5% that feels like it's just broken and that's what makes the forums, youtube, headlines, etc.

FSD has been getting a lot better with the recent updates, so there's that.

 

[Zilla91]

I don't mean to say this to have a pop at people who purchased FSD but I really do struggle to understand how anyone actually thought a car driving itself was even remotely possible.

HW3 won't achieve it and neither will HW4 or any other snake oil Tesla will try to sell you.

As long as roads are not standardised and people are allowed to drive manually then autonomous cars will never be a reality.

 

[PITA]

Mine is still counting Cones and Wheelie Bins, with wobbling graphics like it's designed by a 'Rhubarb & Custard' sketch

It needs full rehab before I let it loose on important stuff...

 

[lowtek]

I don't mean to say this to have a pop at people who purchased FSD but I really do struggle to understand how anyone actually thought a car driving itself was even remotely possible.

HW3 won't achieve it and neither will HW4 or any other snake oil Tesla will try to sell you.

As long as roads are not standardised and people are allowed to drive manually then autonomous cars will never be a reality.

Not really fair ... what snake oil? They are doing it right now, the cars will drive themselves, even on non-standard roads, and does fair handling edge cases, it just doesn't get all of them, which is why it's required to keep your eyes on the road and hands on the wheel.

Finished? No. Snake oil? Hardly.

Did Tesla promise autonomy in FSD's current form? Nope, not at all.

Also, please let us know where to find a crystal ball like yours to predict the future regarding HW4, thanks

 

[Zilla91]

which is why it's required to keep your eyes on the road and hands on the wheel.

So as you freely admit, it doesn't drive itself, you have to supervise it. Case closed your honour, I have no more questions.

 

[lowtek]

So as you freely admit, it doesn't drive itself, you have to supervise it. Case closed your honour, I have no more questions.

It does drive itself, you do have to supervise it. Never did Tesla say it was autonomous. Case dismissed.

 

[johnnycnote]

My experience with FSDb has been positive. But then, I'm not expecting the car to drive itself while I sleep

 

[Type2]

Did Tesla promise autonomy in FSD's current form? Nope, not at all.

Musk in February 2019:
“I think we will be feature complete, full self-driving, this year. Meaning the car will be able to find you in a parking lot, pick you up and take you all the way to your destination without an intervention. This year. I would say I am of certain of that, that is not a question mark.”

Snake oil? More like complete and utter crap. For me past performance is more important than empty promises about the future.

This is a UK sub forum. We haven’t got the (permanent) beta software, and what works in the US won’t necessarily work here.

 

[Durzel]

I don't mean to say this to have a pop at people who purchased FSD but I really do struggle to understand how anyone actually thought a car driving itself was even remotely possible.

HW3 won't achieve it and neither will HW4 or any other snake oil Tesla will try to sell you.

As long as roads are not standardised and people are allowed to drive manually then autonomous cars will never be a reality.

Speaking for myself - I already knew from a test drive that the car could drive itself (Autopilot) along regular A and B roads - basically anywhere you want - which was a revelation to me at the time compared to the BMW i3 I had that only had “Traffic Jam Assist”, which only worked on motorways, and only up to 30mph. So essentially useless.

It is still the case today that Teslas are basically the only cars that don’t restrict owners from this self driving stuff, for better or worse. We aren’t seeing daily reports of the cars driving off the road so I have to assume it (Autopilot) works well enough.

I was sold on FSD for a variety of reasons. Firstly, all the videos I saw of Summon, etc painted a picture of uninhibited use. I actually believed my car would be able to come to me in a car park. Because Autopilot was so unrestricted I had no reason to believe the other features wouldn’t be.

Secondly, and most importantly, when I bought FSD Tesla were advertising “Automatic driving on city streets” (aka FSD Beta as we know it) as “Coming later this year” (2020). That never happened, and still hasn’t happened to this day. Sometime between then and now Tesla changed the website to say the non-commital “Upcoming”.

Tesla gave me no reason to believe at any point that the functionality was so hamstrung. Even if that is mostly the fault of the UNECE I would - and still do - say that Tesla were very economical with the language they used in disclaiming that this functionality could be hampered.

So, yeah, I got duped by the excellent Autopilot on the test drive, and by YouTube videos, and - in my opinion - missold on a feature that to all intents and purposes doesn’t function in the UK, and won’t for many years.

 

[Zilla91]

It does drive itself, you do have to supervise it. Never did Tesla say it was autonomous. Case dismissed.

No it doesn't. I saw a YouTube video of someone trying to use it in Manhattan, it didn't stand a chance.

 

[Durzel]

My experience with FSDb has been positive. But then, I'm not expecting the car to drive itself while I sleep

If I had the FSD beta you guys in the States have, I’d have no complaints at all, although I’d probably still feel a bit annoyed that I’d only be getting it now when I bought the car nearly 3 years ago.

 

[MrBadger]

It does drive itself, you do have to supervise it. Never did Tesla say it was autonomous. Case dismissed.

It doesn’t drive itself as promised in black and white in UK though. They promised city streets by end of the year and still nothing in UK over 3 years later.

I think UK owners have a right to feel that they were mislead, intentionally (especially as the now infamous faked video was used to sell the car) or otherwise (EM has admitted they underestimated how hard it would be).

 

[lowtek]

No it doesn't. I saw a YouTube video of someone trying to use it in Manhattan, it didn't stand a chance.

Yes it does, we have two and they both do just fine.

Manhattan? You mean where lines, lights, and lanes are just "suggestions" ... no doubt it will fail there ...

 

[lowtek]

This is a UK sub forum. We haven’t got the (permanent) beta software, and what works in the US won’t necessarily work here

To my mates in the UK, I apologize for my assumptions based on my experiences in the US. I'm so conditioned to defending facts over feelings here that I sometimes get overzealous.

 

[Kenners]

FSD: never has a fool and his money been so easily parted.

If HW26 can handle driving in London even 90% of the time I will be impressed.

 

[Zilla91]

Manhattan? You mean where lines, lights, and lanes are just "suggestions" ... no doubt it will fail there ...

So again you admit it doesn't drive itself. Got it. Thanks for confirming.

 

[Type2]

FSD: never has a fool and his money been so easily parted.

If HW26 can handle driving in London even 90% of the time I will be impressed.

I believe you are being a little pessimistic. I’m pinning my hopes on HW21