UK EV grant cut

[Shinden]

So it looks like the govt is cutting the EV grant by £1000 in November down to £3500.
I guess very few people based their buying decisions on the strength of the £4500 grant, but this coupled to an increase in BIK value to 16% does seem to suggest the politicians commitment to ev’s may be losing a bit of steam.

 

[LoveEV]

commitment

Yeh well from what I read it said they did it because EVs were getting cheaper in price! I think the manufacturers have adjusted their margins in line with the discount.

It’s a good time to order as I heard there will be a price increases due to the exchange rates.

 

[thegruf]

I say fair enough on one condition - the government implement the duty increase on fossil fuel in this budget that they keep wimping out on.

 

[WannabeOwner]

A tax on CO2 / pollution would be better than continued subsidies on EV - there comes a point where that has to be phased out, and although I think it worthwhile subsidising early-adopters that money is mostly going to rich old codgers ... like me!

I'm not paying Road Tax or Fuel Duty, so paying nothing for the roads I drive on. BIK must have been a cock-up, its not gone-up and staying-up (although why they didn't correct it I don't know ... perhaps too difficult to fix all the software changes, and presumably only a few thousand people effected anyway ...)

EV owners saving over £100 a month for every 10,000 miles driven annually doesn't take long to recoup a £1,000 reduction in Grant.

 

[.jg.]

A tax on CO2 / pollution would be better than continued subsidies on EV...

Vehicle Excise Duty is partly based on the vehicle's reported outputs of CO2.

I'm not paying Road Tax or Fuel Duty, so paying nothing for the roads I drive on.

They changed the name of this tax to Vehicle Excise Duty because they are collecting far more than is spent on transport. The money all goes into one big pot at the Treasury and then the government allocates a relatively small proportion of it to maintain and improve the roads (and public transport).

The recent changes in legislation that will require new EV charging points to be connected to smart meters, such that EV charging can be measured separately from other use, maybe preparing for a future in which electric vehicles are ubiquitous and the Treasury will no longer be receiving so much revenue from petrol and diesel i.e they may increase the tax on electricity used to charge EVs.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Vehicle Excise Duty is partly based on the vehicle's reported outputs of CO2.

Sure, but that is unrelated to miles-driven, so not really a "CO2 tax"

I got a Tax renewal for an ICE the other day, its like 30-quid - probably costs them more that that to administer - not to mention that I also have to do that for the EV too, which is zero-cost, so definitely a negative on Admin there ...

At @thegruf said: its disappointing that every year the Budget wimps out on increasing the Fuel Duty Escalator, which is specifically the tool that was supposed to be used as a CO2 tax

maybe preparing for a future in which electric vehicles are ubiquitous and the Treasury will no longer be receiving so much revenue from petrol and diesel

Personally I think they would be better off to tax miles-driven, rather than fuel-used. Surely trying to raise money on all the charging points, in every home, isn't going to be enforceable? ... I can just plug into a Commando rather than my wall charger ...

At worst the tax could be raised at MOT (when mileage is recorded) with self-declaration along the way for folk that want to spread the payment. There's probably a far smarter way of implementing something like that though

 

[.jg.]

Sure, but that is unrelated to miles-driven, so not really a "CO2 tax"

Yes - it doesn't consider miles driven, other pollutants (like NOX and particulates) or the actual condition of the vehicle e.g. diesels with drilled out DPFs. It is an improvement over bands based on engine size though.

Personally I think they would be better off to tax miles-driven, rather than fuel-used. Surely trying to raise money on all the charging points, in every home, isn't going to be enforceable? ... I can just plug into a Commando rather than my wall charger ...

At worst the tax could be raised at MOT (when mileage is recorded) with self-declaration along the way for folk that want to spread the payment. There's probably a far smarter way of implementing something like that though

Yes - I cannot see a better explanation for the measuring part of the EV chargers/smart meter legislation. I agree, it would be easy to game the system - it isn't like red diesel, once electricity is in the car, nobody can tell how it got there and how much tax was paid. They could instead introduce mileage charging through tolls (as in France) and expanding congestion charging - they already have working ANPR technology. Or, they could require insurers to check and report the mileage driven each year - some insurers already collect this information for certain policies.

 

[Fellsteruk]

The whole things stinks. Affordability has nothing to do with it which is what I’m always told “you got a Tesla, you can afford it”

5L mustang has less road tax than my Tesla, how is that fair and your right the government can see their fuel duty is going to disappear so they will further tax EVs like the £320/year you have to pay.

I get that I’m using the road so I should pay towards its upkeep but as you’ve pointed out hardly any goes into the roads.

With pollution so high, much more needs to be done to encourage EV adoption, not talking about bigger insentives to purchase, sure they could do lots more.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Vehicle Excise Duty is partly based on the vehicle's reported outputs of CO2.



They changed the name of this tax to Vehicle Excise Duty because they are collecting far more than is spent on transport. The money all goes into one big pot at the Treasury and then the government allocates a relatively small proportion of it to maintain and improve the roads (and public transport).

The recent changes in legislation that will require new EV charging points to be connected to smart meters, such that EV charging can be measured separately from other use, maybe preparing for a future in which electric vehicles are ubiquitous and the Treasury will no longer be receiving so much revenue from petrol and diesel i.e they may increase the tax on electricity used to charge EVs.

I think you've mixed up two things. The legislation allows for regulation that all EVSEs be smart, not that they're attached to a smart meter. Smart EVSEs can be controlled by the distribution grid, which allows them to do production or demand response. That would help ensure that PEVs don't overload the grid, or, even better, can become a useful resource for the grid.

The legislation does allow for regulation requiring monitoring and recording of energy consumption, but I think that that's for grid management purposes rather than for road usage fees. They want EVs, and if mass electrification happens it's going to have a huge impact on demand. As the fleet electrifies, knowing what's EV and what's other use will be important for capacity and infrastructure planning.

I don't think it's for alternative to fuel taxation, because then you're getting into metering, which requires more regulation and cost, and fuel use as a measure of road use is pretty rough anyway, so continuing that isn't really desirable. I suppose they could use the measurements to apportion tax revenue on electricity to roads.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

So it looks like the govt is cutting the EV grant by £1000 in November down to £3500.
I guess very few people based their buying decisions on the strength of the £4500 grant, but this coupled to an increase in BIK value to 16% does seem to suggest the politicians commitment to ev’s may be losing a bit of steam.

They want to reduce the subsidy, but I think they're still committed. Every BIK band will increase by 3 for 19/20, and 20/21 will change to a more graduated approach, with BEV dropping back to 2, and others 1-50g/km having rates based on EV range bands, from 2 for 130+ mile EREVs (but i3 REX being cancelled), up to 14 for <30 miles. Then it'll go up from there. They just held back on the change, presumably for budgetary reasons and to align with the newer emissions rules.

 

[.jg.]

I think you've mixed up two things. The legislation allows for regulation that all EVSEs be smart, not that they're attached to a smart meter. Smart EVSEs can be controlled by the distribution grid, which allows them to do production or demand response. That would help ensure that PEVs don't overload the grid, or, even better, can become a useful resource for the grid.

The "Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018", Part 2, Section 15:

Smart charge points
(1)Regulations may provide that a person must not sell or install a charge point unless it complies with prescribed requirements.
(2)The requirements that may be imposed under subsection (1) include requirements relating to the technical specifications for a charge point, including for example the ability of a charge point—

(c)to transmit information (including geographical information) to a prescribed person,
(d)to monitor and record energy consumption,​

I know there are the other parts that talk of control (i.e. they will be able to turn off your charger if the grid is under heavy load) but (c) and (d) mean that they will be able to collect EV charging measurements. Why would they bother putting anything this specific in the legislation if they did not intend to use it?

 

[thegruf]

Well-to-Tank Factors

quick bit of arithmetic says I am at a third of the emissions in my 600+hp Tesla compared to a 45mpg typical ICE car, or a sixth of the emissions compared to something approaching the same power ICE.

Then again I pay a little bit more for a 100% renewables green tariff so I am probably 20x better than an equivalent ICE
(and that is only CO2 emissions, not including NOx emissions and others, metal particulate emissions (now being researched for links to neuro degenerative disease), and brake wear particulates which are probably 10x ICE to EV due to regen braking.

So for the CO2 taxation it is not unreasonable (albeit amusingly naiive) for me to expect to pay a twentieth of the emission taxation of an equivalent ICE.

Actual road taxation for maintenance probably ought to be a bit higher in my case though as I actually ripped a portion of a recently top dressed road back in the summer as it hadnt gone off properly. Have to love the torque, but oops.

Reality as we all know if that the government has to get it's taxation from somewhere, so we will all just have to share our location via Google with UK govt so they can stalk tax us by mile driven. Alternatively we can waste billions in setting up some new half-baked system riddled with security flaws for the Chinese and Russians to have fun hacking.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Then again I pay a little bit more for a 100% renewables green tariff so I am probably 20x better than an equivalent ICE

Interesting that "UK Grid Electricity" emissions change from last year is -21% ... so your yesterday-figures are already on the low side

I drove past Drax last week, and the empty, huge, area where coal used to be stored. Good grid-infrastructure of course ... I gather there is talk of a 100MWh battery there.

 

[Asterix187]

The more important part of the announcement is the removal of PHEV from any allowance. Sick and tired of people with Self charging hybrids’ or 30 mile batteries thinking they are being anything more than marginally helpful to the environment when what they are mostl doing is being helpful to their bank balance in reduction of BIK and/or road tax.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I thought the Outlander owners gave up on them when Ecotricity stopped providing free Leccy?

 

[Asterix187]

Overtaken by the BMW 3/5 30e brigade. All that lower BIK but after 20 miles they are lugging a heavy battery around in a petrol BMW.

I can see why Merc have just bought out a diesel PHEV to be honest as it makes sense from merc's business perspective. Company car drivers will lap them up and the BEV market uptake will be put back 3 years (average company car replacement timescale).

On a plus side it means more availability of chargers for a while...