TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

UK Home Charging

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by Cstrac, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. Cstrac

    Cstrac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Hi all

    I've done lots of reading but this is a first time post.

    I'm on the verge of ordering an 85 Model S, probably with tech pack, panoramic roof and leather. I may also add the alcantara.

    My question is whether dual chargers are worth it and what type of charger I'd need at home. I've read that chargemaster are the preferred partners but am confused as to what I'd need to ask them for.

    All advice appreciated.

    Craig
     
  2. LeeJ

    LeeJ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Liverpool, UK
    Just call Chargemaster and say you will have a Tesla Model S, they know what to do (that's what I did).

    Dual chargers are worth it right now, today, given the 11kW limit of the single charger and the plethora of 22kW/40+kW AC chargers out there in the UK. However, destination charging (where you stay overnight, let's say) really doesn't need it (and most will be 7kW anyway so that's not even enough to max out the single charger in the model S). The biggest "nail in the coffin" for the dual charger option will be the Chademo adaptor, if it ever materialised, as it's DC and so by-passes the internal charger(s)
     
  3. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,790
    Location:
    California
    Dual chargers still take several hours to charge so not really worthwhile for "on the road" charging... the SuperChargers are the only practical solution here.
    For home charging, you'll usually have at least 8 hours to charge and the single charger can handle that just fine... no need to have dual chargers at home.
    The only time I can see dual chargers being useful is if you have a long drive to work and need to charge there for a few hours to make it home.
     
  4. Cstrac

    Cstrac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Thanks for the feedback, I think I'd supercharge on the very rare occasion I'd need more than 250ish miles of range.

    i was thinking of the dual chargers for home but it sounds like it's probably not worth it...
     
  5. VintageMark

    VintageMark Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Dual chargers wont help at home in *most* (not all) cases...

    Chargemaster home chargers (top model, there is a lower one) are rated at 7kW... a single Model S charger is capable of 11kW... dual is 22kW...

    If you have 'unusual' home power options (3 phase or multi 100Amp feeds) then you may have the option get a better charger at home... (i.e. something like the Tesla HPWC, or a 3 phase charge point)..

    In which case dual chargers will help...

    At home on a top Chargemaster you'll get about 22mph of charge... at work I have a 3 phase charger... (and a dual charger Model S)... so I get 65mph of charge...

    Hope that helps...
     
  6. Cstrac

    Cstrac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Good advice thanks. No 3 phase at home nor work so I'll leave the dual chargers...
     
  7. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    My car physically has dual chargers, but I didn't order it that way. I believe many cars came this way, and Tesla remotely placed a software limit on the cars subsequently for those that hadn't paid. Not sure if anyone has subsequently paid to have the cap removed, or if newer cars have different hardware. (The reason for shipping all cars with dual chargers was a single charger can handle 3x16A common on the continent, but not 1x30A common in the UK so rather than design a higher capacity single phase charger they share the load of a single phase between 2 of the existing design, otherwise UK cars couldn't realistically charge overnight).

    Saying that I've always charged on my 7kW home unit, and TBH never had a problem given my low mileage (I've done 2.5k since July)

    I'm getting a 3 phase 22KW charger installed at the office for visitors, so theoretically a couple of hour meeting followed by lunch could see the car fully charged again. If other business follow suit and offer "fast AC" visitor charging then maybe the dual charger could be appealing. (And hopefully an easy OTA upgrade)
     
  8. arg

    arg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    I disagree. It is true that "dual chargers take several hours to fully charge", and that makes 22kW charging unattractive for ultra-long distance travel where your journey requires multiple full charges.

    However, there aren't many such routes in the UK, and those that exist will be covered by Superchargers sooner rather than later - if you are driving 400+ miles in a one-way trip, you probably have a choice of routes and can contrive to pass a supercharger without much of a detour (as soon as there are a handful of them around).

    The case where I find dual chargers useful, and don't expect Superchargers to totally solve the problem any time soon, is for day-trip journeys just beyond the range of an '85. Unless there's a traffic-free motorway direct from your home to your destination, realistically the range of an 85 already corresponds to 5 or more hours of driving - so assuming you want to spend at least some time at your destination before turning round and driving home, you are unlikely to have time/stamina to use another full charge - but another hour or two of driving is feasible. This means an hour or two of charging with dual chargers, which is feasible to spread out into meal/coffee stops. Round-trips like this are in the 100-150 miles one-way sort of distance, and contriving to pass a supercharger is likely to be a much more significant detour (until such time as there are huge numbers of Superchargers deployed), but there are enough Ecotricity (and other) rapid chargers around that you are likely to pass one or two.

    For example, the other week I drove Cambridge->Brighton and back as a day trip - 239 miles, so right on the limit of a range charge, and as it happened I was getting worse-than-usual Wh/mile since it was pouring with rain. However, I stopped 20 minutes for lunch on the way there and 10 minutes for coffee on the way back, adding ~30 miles of range, and got home with 20 miles in the tank. Yesterday, I drove Suffolk->West Drayton->Cambridge; this time traffic was such that I drove more slowly and got very good Wh/mile so on reaching my last charging opportunity I didn't need to stop - but I was only comfortable planning the trip knowing that if things had worked out less well I could easily have stopped for 20 mins or so and made up the difference. With single chargers, I would have been much less comfortable.


    So I think I am going to get value out of my dual chargers before they get obsoleted - and more likely obsoleted by the CHAdeMO adapter than the supercharger rollout (given that everywhere I have charged to date at 22kW I could also have charged at 50kW if I had a CHAdeMO adapter).
     
  9. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    811
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Getting 22kW charging at home by specifying dual chargers and having a 3 phase EVSE installed is a convenience feature that in reality will almost never make any difference to you. It's also very expensive if you don't already have 3 phase - many thousands of pounds to get the service provided. If you do already have 3 phase then it's worth considering.

    But I completely agree with arg that since the UK is not that big a place, getting a 50 mile range boost by stopping for a meal (or from 2 stops for coffee and a stretch) is really helpful for lots of fairly common cross-country itineraries; either round trips to/from somewhere 125 miles away, or one way 250 mile trips, both of which I regularly do.

    Of course we all hope that superchargers will become ubiquitous, and that our CHAdeMO infrastructure will get upgraded so that the charge points can actually deliver the power levels the Model S demands. Until then the second charger really is useful on the road.
     
  10. mellington

    mellington Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have dual chargers but only as a stopgap while we don't have anything better on the roads for the times I need to emergency charge to get home / somewhere - 22kw is better than 11kw or 7kw in this case. I also thought having dual may be a good idea for resale.

    In reality, I don't need them (so far) and I'm not installing 3 phase at home, it's just not worth it. Once SCs are here, there really shouldn't be a good case for CHAdeMO or dual AC charging in my view.

    On extended leather and alcantara I thought about them for a while and didn't bother. I can't say I regret this at all, the standard trim is good and I don't feel that I have missed anything.
     
  11. Rluner

    Rluner Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    North West UK
    Lots of good information here as always.

    Let me add my bit.

    I ordered my Tesla without duel chargers for reasons already given in the replies.

    However, then the more I read about supercharges, and CHADeMO adapters (really big btw), charge speed and future value, the more I realised that in reality when I'm off out with my wife and kids in the car, getting the same charge in half the time at a pit stop by having dual charges is always going to be a good idea. Asking my family to wait for extra time while the car charges up, isn't what I ever want to ever do.

    I personally added dual charges to my order, after it was confirmed.

    95% of the time I expect having dual chargers will make no difference to my personal drives, but for the 5 % of the time it will I personally now think it's worth paying the money.
     
  12. Cstrac

    Cstrac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Thanks for the useful advice.

    I hadn't thought about it but perhaps dual chargers are worth it for using with ecotricity or similar the few times I might need it.

    I'd like to keep the tech pack, roof and leather seats but could forego the alcantara...

    Calling into Westfield on Friday so I'll speak to the Tesla guys then.

    Thanks again
     
  13. biff

    biff New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Manchester, England
    At the moment, I believe that all cars shipped to the UK have dual chargers installed. This is because they need two in order to charge at 32A on a single phase supply. If you only purchase one charger then Tesla limit these chargers via software so that they will only charge at 16A on a 3-phase supply (11kW).

    I have only purchased one charger as I couldn't justify the extra cost of a second charger to myself. I don't often drive more than 250 miles in a day and I'm hoping that when I do I'll be able to make use of Superchargers or the fabled Chademo adaptor. If the SC rollout is further delayed and the Chademo doesn't arrive soon then maybe I will rethink but for now I'm ok with a max of 11kW charging..
     
  14. nwarddrfc

    nwarddrfc Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    doncaster
    Hi anyone what is the longest cable you car have to the car as my charge point is in my garage but the car wont fit down the side of my house so i will need a 18 metre cable is this even possible
     
  15. arg

    arg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    From a quick glance at the standards documents, there doesn't seem to be a maximum length specified (though I might have missed it). J1772 has a capacitance limit of 3.1nF for the EVSE and cable added together, so with cable capacitance of about 100pF/metre that would limit you to about 20m (though it would probably work in practice up to 100m or so).

    These people have 10m cables off the shelf; possibly they might do 18m to special order: https://evconnectors.com/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Leads-Connect-To-A-Charging-Station?product_id=115

    On the other hand, while it may be possible I am not at all sure this is a good idea. Is there no way to get your charge point moved somewhere nearer where the car will be parked?
     
  16. nwarddrfc

    nwarddrfc Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    doncaster
    Moving the charge point could be done but would then be stuck to the outside of the house so was thinking of ways round it thinking of getting a special cable made if it comes to it

    Sorry forgot to say thank you for the advice
     
  17. biff

    biff New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Manchester, England
    @nwarddrfc I would recommend getting the charge point moved. I have my chargepoint attached to the side of my house, because I couldn't get it installed in my garage without digging up my drive. Obviously it depends on your house but its not obtrusive on mine, it is waterproof so its no problem having it outside, and its easy to wire it direct from your consumer unit.
     

Share This Page