[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

[WKUK]

In the FAQs for the announcement Tesla state:
- - - - -
Will vehicles equipped with ultrasonic sensors have their functionality removed?
At this time, we do not plan to remove the functionality of ultrasonic sensors in our existing fleet.
- - - - -
Would seem that there is no imminent software "delete" incoming for parking beeps. Doesn't help new Q4 owners obviously

 

[Zilla91]

At this time

Or in other words; yes we will but we don’t want to tell you this now in case it spooks a load of existing customers

 

[GRiLLA]

Tesla have in the past, when possible, honoured the spec that the car was ordered with, at worse, let the customer know of a change in spec to give them the choice. Of course, the spec needs to be documented first, so can I suggest that if you still can, you screen shot the spec of the car you ordered whilst you still can.

Not always. My new car was delivered in June without radar, I was not informed and the removal of radar was only announced long after I had placed the order. As I received it the change on my car made no functional difference, I wasn't missing any of the advised user features.

Hopefully if this does mean that new cars will be delivered without fey features then people need to be advised, but TBH all you might do is cancel your order, and you can do that within 2 weeks of receiving the car anyway.

 

[blower]

Tesla is basically playing a game of kerplunk......they will keep removing things until it all goes wrong.

Recent list of stuff removed:

-USB data connection (power only) on all USB ports other than glovebox
-Passenger lumbar support
-Secondary steering control unit (no level 2 capability when/if FSD ever gets there)
-Front radar
-Mobile connector (granny charger)
-Parking sensors?

Keep pulling those straw's Elon - eventually you will completely lose your marbles.

 

[GRiLLA]

If these components aren't going to be used in the near future it's entirely logical not to fit them, it's just that is the sort of uncaring machine logic rather than being customer focused. This was done before in the US, the first Tesla Vision cars without a radar had limited top speeds and didn't have several of the other safety features initially, they were added 1-2 months later.

 

[WKUK]

Or in other words; yes we will but we don’t want to tell you this now in case it spooks a load of existing customers

I understand the cynicism but I can't see Tesla removing a working feature without a replacement in existing fleet. Whether or not you prefer Tesla Vision to the Radar based solution, the like-for-like feature set was unaffected in existing fleet. Once the Vision based solution to Parking Assist is live then maybe they swap in out in software.

That being said the delivery of a £60k vehicle in 2022 without a working park-assist feature is unfettered madness.

 

[Durzel]

The blind spots are less - possibly negated - when the car is moving. It was a genuine question last night. Under what circumstances would the car not see an object if it was driving up to that object? The only circumstance I could think of is if someone parked a car with an unpopulated bike rack in front of yours while you were away shopping or something. But that is probably an edge case such as USS have edge cases.

No-one is suffering anything now. It'll be a while before these cars hit the street (hopefully not literally). I'm not going to worry about it. More importantly Tesla aren't going to listen to me

How about if you park in a garage and things move in that garage between when you park up, the car sleeps, and you come to use it again? Fine if the single front camera can see the stuff has moved, not so great if it can't.

Buckets, boxes, etc.. stuff that the front camera might not see because it's lower than the leading edge of the bonnet, but USS would.

Granted you are right that generally speaking as you drive towards something so long as the car remembers everything it seems then you ought to be fine. I would question whether that is an effective use of processing power, though, compared to USS.

 

[EL CapiTRAN]

I can't wait for all the youtube videos of folks testing out the USS vs Vision. I thought I would miss the radar in the old Y but they have since disabled that with a software update so I guess upgrading was the right route. NOW, I'm worried that they will eventually disable the USS on the current Y. I have to park within 12 inches in my garage. NOT 12 inches to the wall but 12 inches from the storage bins against the wall in front. I'm interested to see how Vision handles that.

 

[init6]

How about if you park in a garage and things move in that garage between when you park up, the car sleeps, and you come to use it again? Fine if the single front camera can see the stuff has moved, not so great if it can't.

Buckets, boxes, etc.. stuff that the front camera might not see because it's lower than the leading edge of the bonnet, but USS would.

Unless it continuously monitors the surroundings?

I would question whether that is an effective use of processing power, though, compared to USS.

Apparently it is very efficient. Less than 10ms to create the map. The video is tough going but I'd recommend watching it.

 

[TheRealWatto]

I can't wait for all the youtube videos of folks testing out the USS vs Vision. I thought I would miss the radar in the old Y but they have since disabled that with a software update so I guess upgrading was the right route. NOW, I'm worried that they will eventually disable the USS on the current Y. I have to park within 12 inches in my garage. NOT 12 inches to the wall but 12 inches from the storage bins against the wall in front. I'm interested to see how Vision handles that.

In the latest Dirty Tesla video he put tape over the sensors and navigate on autopilot seemed to not be using them. It does appear to do a decent job mapping the space. No idea if it stores the map when the car is off or not.

Not bothered with how they develop autopilot since I still don't believe it'll be effectively parking my car for me for the foreseeable. What I would like is to keep the sensors to help deal with tight parking of my oversized car with a letterbox of a rear window and vanishing front bumper.

 

[MrT3]

I have to park within 12 inches in my garage. NOT 12 inches to the wall but 12 inches from the storage bins against the wall in front. I'm interested to see how Vision handles that.

You should be good. Bins and cones are what Tesla Vision excels at - it's other cars, walls and shadows it isn't so good at

 

[EL CapiTRAN]

In the latest Dirty Tesla video he put tape over the sensors and navigate on autopilot seemed to not be using them. It does appear to do a decent job mapping the space. No idea if it stores the map when the car is off or not.

Not bothered with how they develop autopilot since I still don't believe it'll be effectively parking my car for me for the foreseeable. What I would like is to keep the sensors to help deal with tight parking of my oversized car with a letterbox of a rear window and vanishing front bumper.

I agree. It's the parking situation I'm not happy about. The fact that they are disabling features on the future cars that don't have theses sensors, already prove it's value in having them. If vision isn't ready to be used now, how can they say with certainty that it will be sufficient in the future.

 

[PastaSource]

I can't imagine these decisions (dropping USS) are made in a vacuum, even at Tesla. All the valid arguments we're making will have likely been debated. As others have pointed out, we have no idea what a Q4 car without USS will be. We might see upgraded, wider FOV, or more cameras (something to go with the yoke and lack of indicator stalks, lol), there might be enough cameras to provide a birdseye/360 view, so whilst not providing on screen distance, will give enough visual indication to help with parking.
If no new hardware (which I'm still suspecting we'll see to go with this decision), they'll possibly have to start utilising the matrix headlights for something, those along with front facing camera will be the new front PDC :

 

[Simavon]

Reversing onto our drive at certain times of day in the summer, you can't see anything in the RHS camera due to low sun between ours and the neighbours. They will solve this how?

I've also noticed the following distance being too close with Tesla Vision - and late to respond to getting close, and also very hesitant about accelerating when changing into a clear lane.

And had the car accelerating towards the car in front having complained about poor visibility (due to low sun).

 

[Tony Hoyle]

I understand the cynicism but I can't see Tesla removing a working feature without a replacement in existing fleet.

I admire your optimism..

 

[nurusz]

I am praying mine still comes with USS.

Prayers will not help. They will disable ultrasonic sensors in all car with these sensors already installed

 

[GRiLLA]

Buckets, boxes, etc.. stuff that the front camera might not see because it's lower than the leading edge of the bonnet, but USS would.

If you put something very close to the bumper and it wasn't in front of one of the USS I doubt it would detect it today. The beam pattern of Ultrasonic sensors isn't very wide.

 

[GRiLLA]

Reversing onto our drive at certain times of day in the summer, you can't see anything in the RHS camera due to low sun between ours and the neighbours. They will solve this how?

I've also noticed the following distance being too close with Tesla Vision - and late to respond to getting close, and also very hesitant about accelerating when changing into a clear lane.

And had the car accelerating towards the car in front having complained about poor visibility (due to low sun).

I guess you'll have to wait and see, but I would suggest that these sort of camera blocked messages tend to happen when driving, and not when parking.

Here's one wild theory, remember there was a story a while ago about Tesla choosing a new camera supplier, maybe this change is also linked to that, and new cars will have newer camera with different characteristics to the ones we see today. Maybe ever IR emitters or something.

 

[robmcm]

Someone somewhere must know more than is being told.
Why on earth would you remove a system that works and replace in the short term with absolutely nothing and a promise that what will work is “coming soon”.
Surely, you wait until the replacement is tested and works.

I can see some logic in the whole vision scenario mapping the surroundings for a multitude of uses rather than just AP/FSD etc.
Perhaps, just perhaps, this will lead to single stack, city streets and FSD becoming a shorter reality!

EDIT: Sorry, just dreaming

Stated “end of year” for single stack which is a bit of a meme in itself

 

[Zilla91]

This was done before in the US, the first Tesla Vision cars without a radar had limited top speeds and didn't have several of the other safety features initially, they were added 1-2 months later.

Whether or not you prefer Tesla Vision to the Radar based solution, the like-for-like feature set was unaffected in existing fleet.

About that, could either of you tell me what a) the minimum distance setting is with and without radar and b) what the maximum speed for TACC with and without radar.