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[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

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It shouldn't surprise me that there are lots of people from the software industry in a Tesla forum :) I may have dragged this topic off-track.


Sadly I'd have to agree. Anyone that doesn't do at least test-first development, and ideally test-driven development, should not be allowed to write production systems consumed by members of the public. If digital infrastructure was physical, there's no way authorities would let it be built the way that large enterprises generally tend to.



I'm not, although I should have been more clear that I was referring to feature flags to disable unfinished functionality and prevent those code paths from being used in production. I'd expect this to be used to allow WIP to be committed to master/main when practicing continuous delivery. Between process boundaries is a bit different, you can get around that with different minor/patch releases of services being available concurrently, and rely on the routing layer to ensure clients get the behaviour they're expecting.




You pull out the feature flags once the code has been enabled in production. I'd agree that long-lived feature flags are bad; they should exist as long as is necessary and no longer for exactly the reason you mention.

Reminds me of a gambling company that I worked with, where the testers got a bonus dependent on the number of passing tests they had. Would you believe that their tests didn't find many bugs?

I absolutely, categorically disagree on this in the strongest possible terms :) Continuous delivery requires trunk-based development, and a stop-the-line CI/CD pipeline that means that if something is broken, no-one gets to deploy any new functionality until the blockage is cleared - again inspired by the Toyota Production System. I would agree that code changes must always be tested before being deployed, but not that they need to be tested before being merged.

Some continuous deployment purists would argue that testing before deployment isn't even necessary, and it's better to have very responsive rollback mechanisms and progressive rollouts. The weakness of this approach is that causality becomes hard to track in large, distributed systems, and doesn't protect against emergent phenomena.

Git Flow and feature branch-based workflows work for open source projects contributed to by unknown, untrusted and uncontrollable third parties - this should not be an aspiration for an enterprise working on a product. They delay feedback (discovery of merge conflicts, semantic conflicts) increasing lead-time-to-production and increasing the risk of rework being needed. This is in addition to incentivising isolationist approaches from developers working solo, and a lack of shared vulnerability allowed by developers rebasing the heck out of their feature branch before raising a PR, so that no-one else on the team ever saw all the mis-steps they made on the way to getting the perfect commit.

If you don't trust trunk-based development, that's a smell that your processes, tests and monitoring aren't good enough.
We are going waaaay out of topic here :)

I agree with you; however, you describe development of non-critical systems. I have not heard of anyone doing continuous deployment in medical, financial, aeronautics, energy, etc. Especially, deploying without testing, relying on “fall forward” or “quick rollback”.
Continuous deployment is good for non-critical, consumer-grade systems. Certainly not for cars. You cannot “rollback” a dead person.
 
Doesn’t take much if that’s a low wall or your dog, does it?
JLR also have plenty of more bluff fronted products and the LR sells a lot better than the J these days
Do you often park within a few cms of a very low wall that you can't see it from the window, and you rely purely on USS to guide you, then forget when you get back in ? USS isn't magic, and very close to the car has a beam pattern that can miss obstructions, we just don't generally get much closer than half a meter and the car can see as far.
 
Do you often park within a few cms of a very low wall that you can't see it from the window, and you rely purely on USS to guide you, then forget when you get back in ? USS isn't magic, and very close to the car has a beam pattern that can miss obstructions, we just don't generally get much closer than half a meter and the car can see as far.
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I can see that it doesn't bother you and you're prepared to trust Tesla, and that's fine. Personally, I wouldnt trust Tesla if it promised to feed my goldfish when I went on holiday. This is a company that says it's got a parking solution coming instead of USS but instead is going to leave new cars without a parking solution while it polishes up whatever turd it's going to fit. Remember this is a company that cant make wipers that work in spray and really thinks that a new range graph with 5 point font off-axis on the other side of the car is helpful, not unreadably useless. It's a company that refuses to adopt the almost universal bird's eye knitted images that are actually useful in parking (one of the main problems with kerbing in my experience is that the fender cameras don't show the rear wheels). This is a company that's mis-sold a dream of UK FSD when it's being coded for American streets...
That's all my personal view, and others will disagree with some or all of it. But the temperature on this thread seems top suggest that most people think that removing USS is the dumbest move imaginable. What next - they'll be chopping the steering wheel in half? ;)
 
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I can see that it doesn't bother you and you're prepared to trust Tesla, and that's fine. Personally, I wouldnt trust Tesla if it promised to feed my goldfish when I went on holiday. This is a company that says it's got a parking solution coming instead of USS but instead is going to leave new cars without a parking solution while it polishes up whatever turd it's going to fit. Remember this is a company that cant make wipers that work in spray and really thinks that a new range graph with 5 point font off-axis on the other side of the car is helpful, not unreadably useless. It's a company that refuses to adopt the almost universal bird's eye knitted images that are actually useful in parking (one of the main problems with kerbing in my experience is that the fender cameras don't show the rear wheels). This is a company that's mis-sold a dream of UK FSD when it's being coded for American streets...
That's all my personal view, and others will disagree with some or all of it. But the temperature on this thread seems top suggest that most people think that removing USS is the dumbest move imaginable. What next - they'll be chopping the steering wheel in half? ;)
It's all about saving pennies. Chopping the steering wheel helped but those two buttons on it are going to have to go and with Tesla vision night sensitivity there's really no need for headlights 😈🤣
 
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I can see that it doesn't bother you and you're prepared to trust Tesla, and that's fine. Personally, I wouldnt trust Tesla if it promised to feed my goldfish when I went on holiday. This is a company that says it's got a parking solution coming instead of USS but instead is going to leave new cars without a parking solution while it polishes up whatever turd it's going to fit. Remember this is a company that cant make wipers that work in spray and really thinks that a new range graph with 5 point font off-axis on the other side of the car is helpful, not unreadably useless. It's a company that refuses to adopt the almost universal bird's eye knitted images that are actually useful in parking (one of the main problems with kerbing in my experience is that the fender cameras don't show the rear wheels). This is a company that's mis-sold a dream of UK FSD when it's being coded for American streets...
That's all my personal view, and others will disagree with some or all of it. But the temperature on this thread seems top suggest that most people think that removing USS is the dumbest move imaginable. What next - they'll be chopping the steering wheel in half? ;)
The decision to remove a feature that works well, for one that hasn't even been written yet, is symptomatic of the company's inability to do things right. I am not interested in a software developer's explanation of why it is the right or wrong thing to do - I am interested in my car's ability to let me do a task that we each have to do each time we use the car. Park it without risk to others and without damaging the vehicle.

I had not had cause to use Automatic High Beams, as I had not driven extensively at night until recently. I have held off installing updates beyond .24 as I had heard bad things about AHB.

On Saturday night, on a long drive on a relatively quiet M4, I thought I would swallow my concerns and try it out. Awful, simply unusable. It did not detect oncoming traffic until well past the point where you are just being a dick to the other driver. Did not detect cars joining the motorway. Switched off for large motorway signs, then back on again. And this for technology that has been around for decades.

What can we expect though? Musk seems to prefer quantity over quality - whether that be firing Twitter developers for not writing enough lines of code, overworking people to meet artificial targets for quarter end in Tesla, cars that are badly built / not prepped / make you feel like you bought a Lada, or whatever. And I can think of no other company whose customers make excuses for such behaviour.
 
Hi. Just signed up here. Got a Model 3 on order - yipee, I think :). A bit bummed it wont have good old USS, nor probably any replacement at all until who knows when. This has been an interesting discussion! I guess the Vision solution hinted by that Green hacker guy didn't materialise in this latest update?

Partly tempted to cancel and wait longer for something good - like maybe HW4, or that Chinese price drop to maybe hit Europe. Then again if I wait longer looks like I might loose indicator stalks, which my wife will not appreciate, and who knows what else, maybe matrix headlights since they don't yet do anything.

Hmmmm. Still a few months to go, so will wait and see for a while.
 
The decision to remove a feature that works well, for one that hasn't even been written yet
How do you know this?

It may have been written already, all we know is it has not been released yet, and it has not been removed for anyone who already has it.

On Saturday night, on a long drive on a relatively quiet M4, I thought I would swallow my concerns and try it out. Awful, simply unusable. It did not detect oncoming traffic until well past the point where you are just being a dick to the other driver. Did not detect cars joining the motorway. Switched off for large motorway signs, then back on again. And this for technology that has been around for decades.

I do wonder why some people complain about this, and whether it is down to personal preference for high beams as opposed to actual functionality, as I've done plenty of night time driving over the last few weeks on motorway and normal roads and mine has worked fine, no problems.

firing Twitter developers for not writing enough lines of code
overworking people to meet artificial targets
cars that are badly built / not prepped / make you feel like you bought a Lada
Okay, perhaps I now get where you're coming from, you're in the angry complain at everything camp.
 
How do you know this?

It may have been written already, all we know is it has not been released yet, and it has not been removed for anyone who already has it.



I do wonder why some people complain about this, and whether it is down to personal preference for high beams as opposed to actual functionality, as I've done plenty of night time driving over the last few weeks on motorway and normal roads and mine has worked fine, no problems.




Okay, perhaps I now get where you're coming from, you're in the angry complain at everything camp.
Thanks for the wonderfully patronising response.

Okay, perhaps now I get where you're coming from, you're in the make excuses for whatever Tesla f's up next camp.

Geez, you fanbois!
 
My car is in being repaired. The car I've been given in the meantime has:

- auto wipers. They just work.
- auto high beam. Dips quickly, at distance for both oncoming and same direction traffic. Doesn't dip for its own lights illuminating street furniture. Seems to go back to high beam way faster than Tesla.
- adaptive cruise control. Way better than TACC. For instance it starts accelerating straight away rather than waiting until the lane change is complete, then maybe accelerating, maybe not. No phantom braking so far.

This is what a competent implementation looks like. Of course it'll be different this time.
 
My car is in being repaired. The car I've been given in the meantime has:

- auto wipers. They just work.
- auto high beam. Dips quickly, at distance for both oncoming and same direction traffic. Doesn't dip for its own lights illuminating street furniture. Seems to go back to high beam way faster than Tesla.
- adaptive cruise control. Way better than TACC. For instance it starts accelerating straight away rather than waiting until the lane change is complete, then maybe accelerating, maybe not. No phantom braking so far.

This is what a competent implementation looks like. Of course it'll be different this time.
no worries - some fanbois will jump to say HOW awesome tesla implementation is and how well it works for them.

I mean, it might be the case, if you never ever had properly working systems like that and have nothing to compare, more over if you do not give a flying fcuk about blinding oncoming drivers
 
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no worries - some fanbois will jump to say HOW awesome tesla implementation is and how well it works for them.

I mean, it might be the case, if you never ever had properly working systems like that and have nothing to compare, more over if you do not give a flying fcuk about blinding oncoming drivers
Mod comment :

Friendly reminder to please stick to debating the merits or otherwise of the topic rather than throwing around names and insults if people have a different opinion to yours.
 
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My car is in being repaired. The car I've been given in the meantime has:

- auto wipers. They just work.
- auto high beam. Dips quickly, at distance for both oncoming and same direction traffic. Doesn't dip for its own lights illuminating street furniture. Seems to go back to high beam way faster than Tesla.
- adaptive cruise control. Way better than TACC. For instance it starts accelerating straight away rather than waiting until the lane change is complete, then maybe accelerating, maybe not. No phantom braking so far.

This is what a competent implementation looks like. Of course it'll be different this time.
What did they lend you? A BMW?