I’ve been reading crap like this on this forum for years. Which aspects of your car do you think are “clearly years” ahead f the competition?
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[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance
- Thread starter randompixel
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When I first joined this forum I was ridiculed for suggesting there would be meaningful competition within a few years. The fanboys assured me Tesla were at least ten years ahead of anyone else. What a load of b*ll*cos that turned out to be.
Tesla are still holding their own when it comes to efficiency and performance. However, I would argue that the best all round EVs right now come from South Korea, and there are some very exciting cars coming out of China.
It depends on what you’re looking for I guess, but for me the power:efficiency ratio is far better than the competition. The Supercharger network is also unbeatable right now.
For most people looking for an affordable, reliable car though, this ain’t it.
For most people looking for an affordable, reliable car though, this ain’t it.
Back to sensors, news over night suggests radar could be coming back. I’d normally moan at such reports based on “some insider says..”, but the evidence is based on Teslas service manuals from 6 months ago showing a new, larger radar housing, and a letter to the regulator in the US asking for a time extension to the confidential embargo as the marketing is due to start next month (or words to that end).
If they do, the whole credibility of the Tesla Vision narrative, whether you believed it or not, will surely be shot.
If they do, the whole credibility of the Tesla Vision narrative, whether you believed it or not, will surely be shot.
Zilla91
Active Member
I look forward to seeing how the true believers quickly reverse their previous positions on vision only
It's not formally announced yet, and if it is, it's likely to only be to those who have paid for FSD and even then probably not for many years.
This concerns me, not sure if I should return the car under the 14 days!
Mod comment - the article is being removed because the headline is misleading - it is not an announcement by Tesla. If we want to quote anyone, can we please include the original tweet which has been taken and others have made up additional info for clicks.
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I wouldn't have got my M3LR if the ultrasonic sensors had been removed. It's not only the sensors themselves but the intent it shows on the part of Tesla. They are willing to remove features and give their customers a worse product (even temporarily) to save money. Tesla do not make cheap cars - they shouldn't act cheap.
I don’t mind if they do this, however, I’d want retrofit. It means we are completely not done over.
And indeed if a different radar module is to be used, then presumably it must be essential, and if it's essential, where does that leave existing cars with paid FSD? Especially those equipped with 'inadequate' radar? And as you say, the whole VO narrative looks flawed.
There's a world of difference between low-res radar and hi-res radar. Low-res radar is not coming back.
As suggested on another thread, I don't think we know from Tesla what application might be intended for any new (likely hi res) radar. I can't construct a reasonable sounding narrative in which there is a superior (radar) tech, worth the effort of designing into any new vehicle (because it does something VO can't do?) yet doesn't warrant retro fitting (especially for FSD cars). Also, if you acknowledge VO needs help, then I don't see how you justify removing legacy radar without offering a replacement that actually does what's needed. (Except may be if you are faced with supply issues that would mean not delivering cars all for the sake of a sensor that's causing you a headache anyway!)
On top of premature removal of USS it paints a most unsatisfactory picture of Tesla's priorities and probably same for their design process.
But is high res radar going to be fitted? And is this a tacit admission by Tesla that they can’t get vision only to work?
SalisburySam
Active Member
Perhaps the high-res radar is for SpaceX, not Tesla. Useful for identifying and avoiding all that space junk banging into the expensive rocket parts until their vision-only system works.
If it is an admission of failure then Elon himself admitted it in June 2021 as they rolled out Vision only:
Tesla just seem a bit stuck with mediocrity, removing or switching off components within the car in anticipation of the next (in the middle of the night) idea Elon has. Elon isn't one to be told something isn't possible so the team are yes men and women - nod meekly in approval and then when he's gone consider how they can do it but on a really tight budget or remove something else from the car that will cover the cost of the new equipment they design, meanwhile Elon has announced to the world that next week the car will have invisibility like the Bond Aston.
Now in the early days this was exciting but in those earlier days it was additional components to add new functions, new toys to the playground - and we accepted the random price increases, and if you wanted a super fast, long range BEV with a super warranty there just wasn't any other alternative marque. It wouldn't be so bad a feeling if we in the UK received updates that the USA get that we are prevented from having - but that isnt Tesla's fault.
Becoming the richest man in the world has influenced Elon to the point he craves even more money and wants a bigger return on every vehicle.
However, like everything in life - nothing is forever.
My M3P is brilliant, love it, and even with its foibles the really good points outweigh the poorer ones - but mine is a 2020 model with what i believe has the best of everything Tesla threw at the model 3 - and prior to some bits being removed - and new it was probably around £55K - same car now would be very close to £70k as I have the white interior and FSD - and I hate the penny pinching, the crap Pirelli tyres, the super cheap hard plastic lower section of the door cards, no passenger lumber support, the awful later centre console and ugly Uberturbines - with a v5 heatpump that's noisy and just doesn't work properly and now no USS. I wouldn't buy another one.
Tesla will continue to do what they feel like until sales are affected and i believe with the alternatives upcoming with other manufacturers Tesla has rested on it laurels for far too long. No business can offer anything for sale that doesn't work like Ronseal, but keep uplifting its prices and trading on future promises its a sure recipe for failure - and the last chance saloon. They have lost me when my next change comes.
Now in the early days this was exciting but in those earlier days it was additional components to add new functions, new toys to the playground - and we accepted the random price increases, and if you wanted a super fast, long range BEV with a super warranty there just wasn't any other alternative marque. It wouldn't be so bad a feeling if we in the UK received updates that the USA get that we are prevented from having - but that isnt Tesla's fault.
Becoming the richest man in the world has influenced Elon to the point he craves even more money and wants a bigger return on every vehicle.
However, like everything in life - nothing is forever.
My M3P is brilliant, love it, and even with its foibles the really good points outweigh the poorer ones - but mine is a 2020 model with what i believe has the best of everything Tesla threw at the model 3 - and prior to some bits being removed - and new it was probably around £55K - same car now would be very close to £70k as I have the white interior and FSD - and I hate the penny pinching, the crap Pirelli tyres, the super cheap hard plastic lower section of the door cards, no passenger lumber support, the awful later centre console and ugly Uberturbines - with a v5 heatpump that's noisy and just doesn't work properly and now no USS. I wouldn't buy another one.
Tesla will continue to do what they feel like until sales are affected and i believe with the alternatives upcoming with other manufacturers Tesla has rested on it laurels for far too long. No business can offer anything for sale that doesn't work like Ronseal, but keep uplifting its prices and trading on future promises its a sure recipe for failure - and the last chance saloon. They have lost me when my next change comes.
1) Power/efficiency, 2) supercharger network, and 3) software/UI (including the Tesla app) are three areas where Tesla seems to be ahead of the competition. It could be two years, it could be 5 years, but the competition is not at parity in those areas.
At the same time, there are other important areas like fit/finish and build quality where Tesla is arguably behind several legacy competitors.
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Supercharger network is being opened up, you’re in the US so you may not see this, but in Surope it’s happening, and in some countries here it’s very widespread
UI isn’t better. Nor is the app to me. I find it funny that the purpose of the screen was to remove cluttered buttons everywhere and yet we now have a massive screen with up to 50 buttons on show at any given point of time. And trying to hit one of them while driving can be really difficult, I find I have to rest a thumb or fingers on the edge of the screen to stabilise the hand. The BMW idrive is much better, it’s both touch screen, has a controller, and the voice control is better, but for the sake of argument let’s just agree some might like the Tesla one, others the BMW, and there’s no right or wrong, but that does mean Tesla aren’t light years ahead, they’re just a different way of achieving the same ends.
That leaves the efficiency. I suggest you look at the iX3 efficiency stats. I’d say Tesla has an edge, but it’s no longer streets ahead.
I apologize to those who have heard me praise my Kona many times, but I also feel obliged to challenge the efficiency leading claims made for Teslas.
In summer I regularly get 5 plus miles per kWh (200whr/mi) Now with temps around 2 to 5 deg C it's nearer 250 whr/mi.
But the bigger issue is that the Kona net vs gross is very similar while ms MS R looks pretty poor if you look at total energy used.
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