[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

[doats1]

I’d love to understand why. There are cameras for reverse with lines that can be used as guidance. Yes I be slightly more careful but I can park. For the front I can see, so that is covered when I reverse park.

I’m really curious to know why (no sensors) but reverse camera with the view park assist is coming is not something yoy could work with?

I was really concerned about it, but now I live without parking sensors fine. If anything, I’m more careful. It would be nice to have front parking sensors but again, I’m just careful and managed to park fine.

If they don’t make the technology work, I do think they retrofit.

If Tesla don’t retrofit or bring some kinda new sensor with a new name, I’ll be upset, not because I’d be able to park better no, but because I get FOMO with tech stuff.

Having to be more careful is kind of why people want parking sensors in the first place - to not have to be.

Parking sensors aren't critical for parking, they're a convenience feature. If you bought a car for a certain price, you're likely to expect this to be a standard feature. Especially if you ordered the car when this was a standard feature.

Tesla very rarely retrofit; I think it's more likely that they'll just start building cars with them again if it turns out they can't reach 'performance parity' with the cameras.

 

[Type2]

Just because we are getting infotainment updates does not mean those resources are being taken away from wipers, headlights, USS replacement or autopilot or anything else that falls under tesla vision that we all seem to live a good moan about.

The reason people like to moan about Tesla vision is because it’s crap. Which is a pretty good reason to moan.

 

[Battpower]

The reason people like to moan about Tesla vision is because it’s crap. Which is a pretty good reason to moan.

Tesla Vision at a code level could be stunning but with current camera setup it is doomed to be useless.

Just done a long drive from Derby to Swansea and back. Clear but cold weather. At night unlit motorways NoA is unavailable most of the time reporting multiple cameras obscured. In the day, usual b pillar condensation ensures same error.

Nothing new, but really who is backing TV other than a proof of concept at best?

 

[Durzel]

There market has dropped away (maybe more accurate to say supply is now ahead of demand, I’m sure they’ll still sell lots). Lots of inventory globally, US customers are being offered with money off at the moment, China is behind where they want and they’ve decided to close the factory for a while, and while closing a factory for a period of maintenance isn’t unusual, they only did that in China a few months ago.

Triple whammy - things like USS putting off a few potential buyer, Musk and Twitter creating a political based negative sentiment to the brand and the economy struggling.

Anyway, single stack didn’t turn up as part of the holiday release, no software to simulate the USS, function so the fears that the “coming soon promise” from a few months ago wouldn’t be so quick are turning out to be true.

I’m surprised but also not that there’s been no mention of an update to get Vision going USS stuff.

Disappointed that there’s no FSD beta visualisations over here (not the actual functionality). That was promised over a year ago.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440361722473156611

You basically can’t trust any timeline, or promise.

 

[CWT3LR]

Seems others agree

Elon Musk sells another huge chunk of Tesla shares

The transactions took place between Monday and Wednesday this week according to the filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

www.cnbc.com

Some are speculating that the way Musk manipulated the share price in order to trigger his massive options as part of his payment package are now working in reverse.

For the sake of argument, what happens to a Telsa car if Tesla were to no longer exist? Are they bricked? Continue to drive just no updates? FSD become inoperable?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Elon Musk sells another huge chunk of Tesla shares

The transactions took place between Monday and Wednesday this week according to the filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

www.cnbc.com

Some are speculating that the way Musk manipulated the share price in order to trigger his massive options as part of his payment package are now working in reverse.

For the sake of argument, what happens to a Telsa car if Tesla were to no longer exist? Are they bricked? Continue to drive just no updates? FSD become inoperable?

You can manipulate only so far, but his bonus was linked to both share price/msrket cap and EBITDA/earnings before interest, tax etc. a few tweets used to swing the dial on the former, but it’s hard production and sales that did the later.

What’s telling for me, to be selling at a 2 year low means he either thinks it’s not going to get better, or he’s desperate for actual cash, and I’d then look over towards Twitter for that.

 

[GRiLLA]

Tesla Vision at a code level could be stunning but with current camera setup it is doomed to be useless.

Just done a long drive from Derby to Swansea and back. Clear but cold weather. At night unlit motorways NoA is unavailable most of the time reporting multiple cameras obscured. In the day, usual b pillar condensation ensures same error.

Nothing new, but really who is backing TV other than a proof of concept at best?

I did High Wycombe to Swansea and then back again the day before you, used NoA all the way. On the way back after dark I had a couple of places where I had to manually move lanes to the left as the camera on that side couldn't see couldn't see, but other than that all was entirely as it should be. At no point was I unable to use NoA.

 

[GlynG]

For the sake of argument, what happens to a Telsa car if Tesla were to no longer exist? Are they bricked? Continue to drive just no updates? FSD become inoperable?

Well the residuals would take a massive tumble - but if my car continued to operate as it currently is - and I'm not ready to sell it anytime soon, then little impact - I do think other businesses would step in and provide service/repairs - after all its just a car - and parts wise third parties would be producing all the bits we need as they would simply purchase the manufacturing equipment at a bargain price from the liquidators.

As for no more OTA updates - well at least we would know what we have working properly will just continue to do so, (and Tesla will not be able to remove those currently with USS) plus retrofits of additional equipment would provide what we don't have - so for instance USS - plenty of standalone kits are available that would be a cinch to fit as an independent piece of equipment, It just doesn't need to be integrated with the current software - the only reason people aren't doing that now is because they hope Tesla Vision does provide the solution.

It wouldn't be long before businesses like Hannshow would have equipment to add a traditional rain sensor to the car and fix the wipers, or to negate auto main beam - or indeed make it work a lot better, but currently it isn't financially viable to do so as it would certainly invalidate the warranty - which we wouldn't have if Tesla went bust anyway.

FSD - at least we would know for sure its in the bin with no chance of any improvements but - I would cling to the hope previous updates would be made available to roll back the software to 2020 when at least my Summon worked, it steered itself in lane, It would change lane and overtake after I confirmed the action with the indicators and it would take me off a motorway at the junction - and on quiet motorways at night my FSD worked flawlessly. I was chuffed with it.

 

[bainsy]

Picked up my car just over 3 weeks ago (almost 4 now) and I’ve never had to rely on USS until today…

I’m at Maidstone superchargers and it’s a “drive-in” one… safe to say it’s a nightmare to drive into a bay without USS. It was quite difficult to determine how far I was from the supercharger itself. Almost curbed my wheels too…

I really hope Vision can sort this, but I’m not optimistic about it

 

[Battpower]

I did High Wycombe to Swansea and then back again the day before you, used NoA all the way. On the way back after dark I had a couple of places where I had to manually move lanes to the left as the camera on that side couldn't see couldn't see, but other than that all was entirely as it should be. At no point was I unable to use NoA.

As always, YMMV!

I had a pretty grim time one way or another. I've always found that in dark or near dark, regardless of condensation, side cameras seem to give blinded or obscured message. I guess if they can't 'see' anything at all the system can't know that they are not somehow obscured.

My route was probably different as I stayed North of the Bristol Channel. Worst event was when I signalled left to return to left lane but car tried to drive into emergency vehicle layby. Keeps you awake for sure!

On most unlit sections of motorway the NoA would revert to twin blue line / AP, accompanied by 'multiple camera obscured' messages.

Also, had 3 or 4 times when indicator came on by itself for no obvious reason, then self cancelled. Along with the usual incorrect lane change messages.

In same vein - cameras have a problem being relied on to see - same cameras unwashed after yesterday's drive gave me a hard time backing into the drive this morning. No, I didn't stage this! Just life. Compare left and right side repeaters. Lighting makes a huge difference obviously, especially when combined with even slight traffic film / salt etc.

I contemplated leaving AC and heat on high to dehumidify the cabin and attempt to get rid of any traces of condensation on b-pillar cams, but the energy cost is very high, especially in v cold weather (when the issue is most likely to ocurr) and in non heat pump model.

Just trying to see a way that Tesla could get the cam's to do what's needed.

 

[phil4]

For the sake of argument, what happens to a Telsa car if Tesla were to no longer exist? Are they bricked? Continue to drive just no updates? FSD become inoperable?

Anything that required the car to "phone home" to work would stop working. So here's some off the top of my head:
The app - all of it.
any integrations, apps, like TeslaFi, TeslaMate, tesla for watch etc.
Speech recognition (or confusion) in the car.
Satellite data.
Maps and traffic data, including superchargers.

So while none of that is critical for driving A-B, a lot of what made it "advanced" will vanish. The above is pretty concrete, there may also be things which are farmed off to tesla rather than done onboard, such as routing that might also stop.

That's before you consider parts, spares, value etc.

I think it'd be fair to say that if it happened, it'd be very bad news.

 

[Zilla91]

What I think would happen (and what I hope will happen) is someone like Daimler, BMW Group or VW would swoop in and buy Tesla

 

[Battpower]

BUT ......

If the underlying tech obligations / issues were if a magnitude that could bring down Tesla, who ever picked up the pieces would likely cherry pick just a few cherries and leave the rest.

Like the charging network.

I have no idea of Tesla's structure, but likely that a lot of infrastructure already has first charges over it in some way or another.

If challenges were insurmountable for Tesla v1 then Tesla/MB or Tesla/BMW would be unlikely to have a fix other than try and salvage the good bits and dump the unsolvable liabilities.

 

[Zilla91]

I suspect Tesla v2 under someone else would concentrate on the car bits and sack off the FSD mumbo jumbo pie in the sky rubbish.

Would MobileEye’s assistance system software work with Tesla’s camera setup? That would be a giant upgrade. You might have to retrofit radar and USS but thinking about it, Teslas are still pretty low in numbers and if you get it on the cheap it wouldn’t be such a huge cost.

 

[Boza]

Don’t forget the investors. They may apply pressure at some point to either spin off the FSD or get a seasonal CEO who could spin off the FSD with the current boss as CEO (better option).
That will not happen until the stock takes a significant hit, however.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Halving its value in a year might concentrate minds..

I wonder how much sway elon still has over the shareholders.. he's sold even more stock recently.

 

[Danzr]

Halving its value in a year might concentrate minds..

I wonder how much sway elon still has over the shareholders.. he's sold even more stock recently.

I think the fact it's still 600% up on where it was 2 years ago is probably more significant, the peaks were never realistic.

 

[CWT3LR]

I think the fact it's still 600% up on where it was 2 years ago is probably more significant, the peaks were never realistic.

2 years ago $235 a share. Today $157 a share. And with nothing left to hype, and no stock incentive and a liquid market (unlike 2 years ago) the stock is starting to be priced in line with its fundamentals. Now, with the reduction to a more sensible p/e ratio, the stock may fall far enough that personal guarantees given by Musk to secure his Twitter debts may be triggered, forcing even bigger share sales than this week's. To the extent his voting rights are diluted to the point he has to step down. And at that point, the company might be an attractive buy for a proper car company. Let's hope so.

 

[Danzr]

Sorry, lost a year there, I meant 3 years ago, just before the pandemic.

But there is longstanding precedent and examples that a collapse in share price makes companies get focused, change their ways and recover... right?... right?

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

"Tesla’s third-largest shareholder tweeted that Musk had “abandoned Tesla” and that the company “has no working CEO""

Rolling stone isn't my usual source but.. Elon Musk Is Dumping Billions in Tesla Stock

TBH given what happens when he's around I'm more optimistic about the next few software releases if he's not paying attention.. Maybe they'll even get the time to test things..