UK Northampton Supercharger - reassign as Destination Charger?

[SeanG]

There has been some very balanced discussion elsewhere on this site about Tesla drivers being caught out and fined £100 for using this supercharger - a charging location on the drive north from London, and one which is regularly recommended by the on-board software as a Public Access Supercharger and is currently marked in RED on the map

Back in 2016 this was one of the first superchargers on this route, and it remains an important staging post. However the land owners Campanile Inn, have now contracted the management of the car park to ParkingEye, who have installed cameras and a registration terminal inside the Hotel. The parking remains free for a limited time, but if you don't read the signs carefully and you don't register with 10 minutes of arrival, you are automatically fined £100. Also, it might be the case that if you charge for more than one hour you are fined too (verification required).

The hotel staff have confirmed - and my Tesla driving contacts on this site and others have verified, that many Tesla drivers are being caught out and fined - the local Tesla drivers and regular users seem largely OK with the new regime, but tourists and other first time users are being fined repeatedly.

The £100 fine notice from ParkingEye clearly states that the owners regard this as private land, and that the car park is a HOTEL PATRON ONLY CAR PARK.

Proposal:

THIS CAR PARK SHOULD BE REASSIGNED AS A DESTINATION CHARGER, marked in GREY on the map and not proposed by the Tesla on board route planner as a public access supercharger.

 

[AudubonB]

It would be interesting - and highly informative - to learn the contract Tesla has with the owner of that pavement. Also, ParkingEye ought to be told that a vehicle doing what it's supposed to be doing is charging, not parking.

USA rules, anyhoo. Not pretending I know diddly about what's what in UK.

(it would be nice to learn where else this topic is being discussed, as you mentioned).

 

[Peteski]

I thought the signs asking you to register at reception on arrival were pretty clear and the process takes only a few seconds. As it's clearly a hotel carpark I was expecting something to that effect.

A £100 fine is very harsh for those genuinely using the Superchargers and not registering, but I don't see any value in re-classifying them as destination chargers when they are valid Superchargers and not only for hotel guests. Having to register your car on arrival is a very minor inconvenience IMO.

 

[DOCAL]

I thought the signs asking you to register at reception on arrival were pretty clear and the process takes only a few seconds. As it's clearly a hotel carpark I was expecting something to that effect.

A £100 fine is very harsh for those genuinely using the Superchargers and not registering, but I don't see any value in re-classifying them as destination chargers when they are valid Superchargers and not only for hotel guests. Having to register your car on arrival is a very minor inconvenience IMO.

It would be nice to have a popup on the car's screen reminding people to register when they get there and plug in.
This is likely to be an issue at other places in the future, so having that facility would be useful for multiple locations.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

pub·lic
/ˈpəblik/
adjective

1. 1.
   of or concerning the people as a whole.
   "public concern"
   synonyms: popular, general, common, communal, collective, shared, joint, universal, widespread
   "by public demand"
2. 2.
   done, perceived, or existing in open view.
   "he wanted a public apology in the Wall Street Journal"
   synonyms: known, published, publicized, in circulation, exposed, overt, plain, obvious
   "the news became public"

noun

1. 1.
   ordinary people in general; the community.
   "the library is open to the public"
   synonyms: people, citizens, subjects, general public, electors, electorate, voters, taxpayers, residents, inhabitants, citizenry, population, populace, community, society, country, nation, world;
   everyone
   "the American public"

 

[Peteski]

It would be nice to have a popup on the car's screen reminding people to register when they get there and plug in.
This is likely to be an issue at other places in the future, so having that facility would be useful for multiple locations.

Or just remember to read any signs when you park up in an unfamiliar carpark. Otherwise you will pick up loads of these fines everywhere in the UK. Not just at Superchargers.

 

[Asterix187]

I would have to agree with Peteski on this. It is technically public as anyone can park there, for free, for up to 30 minutes as long as they register. I would rather have it listed as a supercharger (which it is) but would suggest it does need more of a warning or something directly on the charger to indicate you MUST register at reception.

As mentioned on a previous thread, the hotel has issues with local businesses using it as a car park whilst they work for the day hence why they needed to get a 3rd party parking company involved. Its not a campanile policy as the supercharger at Washington, Newcastle does not require registration.

 

[SeanG]

I thought the signs asking you to register at reception on arrival were pretty clear and the process takes only a few seconds. As it's clearly a hotel carpark I was expecting something to that effect.

A £100 fine is very harsh for those genuinely using the Superchargers and not registering, but I don't see any value in re-classifying them as destination chargers when they are valid Superchargers and not only for hotel guests. Having to register your car on arrival is a very minor inconvenience IMO.

Hi Pete, yes I agree that registering at reception can be regarded by most drivers as a very minor inconvenience - but nontheless it is actually catching a lot of inexperienced Tesla drivers out, and the penalty notices being issued show that ParkingEye know they are sending fines to Tesla drivers. Asterix187 correctly points out that the Campanile are trying to prevent all drivers from using the car park as a daily work car park, however it seems very likely that the bulk of the fines are going to newbie and tourist Tesla drivers, because they are the ones who just turn up and leave minutes later, sometimes without leaving their car or paying enough attention to their surroundings.

I'm in correspondence with Tesla Customer Services on this matter - I see no real harm to Tesla drivers in having the site reclassified, and if the Campanile don't want this loss of status I think that ParkingEye could easily fix this by simply not sending out penalty notices to Teslas which have only been charging, and have not been parked there all day.

 

[Asterix187]

Hi Pete, yes I agree that registering at reception can be regarded by most drivers as a very minor inconvenience - but nontheless it is actually catching a lot of inexperienced Tesla drivers out, and the penalty notices being issued show that ParkingEye know they are sending fines to Tesla drivers. Asterix187 correctly points out that the Campanile are trying to prevent all drivers from using thIe car park as a daily work car park, however it seems very likely that the bulk of the fines are going to newbie and tourist Tesla drivers, because they are the ones who just turn up and leave minutes later, sometimes without leaving their car or paying enough attention to their surroundings.

I'm in correspondence with Tesla Customer Services on this matter - I see no real harm to Tesla drivers in having the site reclassified, and if the Campanile don't want this loss of status I think that ParkingEye could easily fix this by simply not sending out penalty notices to Teslas which have only been charging, and have not been parked there all day.

I guess it shouldn't really be too hard to 'exclude' number plates registered to a tesla that have stayed less than 2 hours automatically. It's only the same as what happens at 90% of motorway service stations nowadays.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't think it should be listed as a destination charger, but maybe Tesla could add support to pop-up a warning when you park in a stall...

Or people could just read the signs in the lots you park/charge in.

 

[Peteski]

Hi Pete, yes I agree that registering at reception can be regarded by most drivers as a very minor inconvenience - but nontheless it is actually catching a lot of inexperienced Tesla drivers out, and the penalty notices being issued show that ParkingEye know they are sending fines to Tesla drivers. Asterix187 correctly points out that the Campanile are trying to prevent all drivers from using the car park as a daily work car park, however it seems very likely that the bulk of the fines are going to newbie and tourist Tesla drivers, because they are the ones who just turn up and leave minutes later, sometimes without leaving their car or paying enough attention to their surroundings.

I'm in correspondence with Tesla Customer Services on this matter - I see no real harm to Tesla drivers in having the site reclassified, and if the Campanile don't want this loss of status I think that ParkingEye could easily fix this by simply not sending out penalty notices to Teslas which have only been charging, and have not been parked there all day.

I think you are looking at the wrong solution here. What this really needs is a chat with the hotel management to come up with a solution to avoid Tesla drivers having to register or at least a simple way of getting their charges revoked. Maybe that could be as simple as instructing their parking contractor to refrain from sending parking notices to any car showing up as a Tesla on their database. Perhaps that instruction could even be linked to those specific charging bays?

Having the site re-classified simply because you got a parking charge by not reading the signs doesn't necessarily solve the issue and creates confusion for those people looking for a Supercharger on one of our major motorway networks. It doesn't bother me personally because I know they are there, but what about other non-locals who may end up driving straight past this site while looking for a Supercharger? You would probably end up creating queues at the next Supercharger along the road. Then there's an even worse scenario, where the hotel says f*** all this hassle and gets the chargers removed from their site altogether. Then they create 6 more parking spaces and don't have any more hassle from Tesla owners complaining about the simple registration!

 

[WannabeOwner]

t would be nice to learn where else this topic is being discussed,

Call for civil disobedience - Northampton Supercharger

THIS CAR PARK SHOULD BE REASSIGNED AS A DESTINATION CHARGER,

Destination Charger, to me, means something that is going to take hours to charge my car and, as such, I wouldn't plan a road-trip-stop there, I'd only plan an over-night or, at the least, a long-lunch / shopping trip / game of golf. This is clearly a Supercharger - its 120kW or whatever.

Maybe Tesla will close it. Its a legacy site back from the days when Tesla did deals with landowners who were prepared to be early adopters. I've stopped at one with 2 Stalls at what is basically a wedding venue Nothing wrong with it, but 2-stall sites are pretty useless now as the chance of all stalls being used is relatively high, and if they are then its a while until one becomes free, whereas at a shiny new 20 stall site both the chances are lower, and if full someone will be leaving very shortly, so until there is a long queue of people waiting its never going to be a problem.

I had a look on Plugshare, expecting to find crowd-sourced feedback there about the need to register to avoid a parking fine - but surprisingly nothing of that nature. Nor on ZapMap - although I think their presentation style would mean that any such "additional info" was not easily seen.

Someone challenging the fine, and the Magistrate agreeing that Teslas should not be included, would solve the problem. Stinking Parking Eye would then have to figure out a way to ignore that type of number plate. Bagsy not me though

 

[Brunel]

Signs are pretty clear and the reception is so close. Plus easily cancelled when challenged. Not an issue.

 

[Christine69420]

Just send the bill to Elon. Superchargers are ment for Teslas so should not have to pay a small fortune to use them.

Tesla need to sort this out. No rocket scientists required for such a simple task!

 

[Peteski]

Maybe Tesla will close it. Its a legacy site back from the days when Tesla did deals with landowners who were prepared to be early adopters.

It would be a shame if they did, especially on the basis of a complaint from a foreign visitor!

 

[WannabeOwner]

Interesting philosophical point though ... at what point do tiny charging sites become no longer fit-for-purpose, and become abandoned in favour of bigger ones ... nearby?

I don't stop at Northampton now, if I can use Newport Pagnell instead - more chargers there, pretty much zero chance of being paired let alone full ... more likely to have either at Northampton.

Be interesting to see how Electrify America and Ionity etc. ...heck! even Ecotricity ... handle that as more EVs hit the road.

Tesla need to make a CCS adaptor ... "All Tesla can use CCS" <> "All cars can use Supercharger"

 

[Peteski]

Interesting philosophical point though ... at what point do tiny charging sites become no longer fit-for-purpose, and become abandoned in favour of bigger ones ... nearby?

Well it's still 6 bays of Supercharging goodness and happens to be very convenient for me. I would be very annoyed if they took them out because some people can't read simple signs or find it inconvenient to walk 15 metres to the reception to register (the whole process from start to finish takes about 30 secs - including the walk)

 

[WannabeOwner]

I would be very annoyed if they took them out because ...

Sure, and agree. I was thinking more in terms of "The site is full a lot of the time, we need to do something".

Tesla could just open another location somewhere nearby and siphon off some traffic ... but you still run the risk of getting paired/waiting at the smaller site.

Or they open a much bigger site "just down the road" and then close the smaller site.

(Or they could open a bigger site "miles away" and then close the smaller one ... and suffer the wrath and indignation of @Peteski !)

 

[Peteski]

Sure, and agree. I was thinking more in terms of "The site is full a lot of the time, we need to do something".

Tesla could just open another location somewhere nearby and siphon off some traffic ... but you still run the risk of getting paired/waiting at the smaller site.

Or they open a much bigger site "just down the road" and then close the smaller site.

(Or they could open a bigger site "miles away" and then close the smaller one ... and suffer the wrath and indignation of @Peteski !)

LOL! I have no problem with the concept of rationalising Supercharging sites, but this particular site never seems to be full - I've certainly never queued there and have rarely had to even pair up. It's also a good location with coffee, food, toilets etc if you need them. Having to register is a very minor inconvenience indeed in this particular case.

But I do agree that these parking companies are far too eager to fire out £100 fines when they are clearly inappropriate and I'm sure a better solution could be found by discussing with the hotel management. I'm sure they've had a few complaints already and not just from people using the Superchargers. I would bet good money that many other hotel visitors and probably even a few guests have been stung by this too.

 

[SeanG]

Signs are pretty clear and the reception is so close. Plus easily cancelled when challenged. Not an issue.

View attachment 346836

Yes in the daylight and when it isn't raining the sign is clear - I didn't notice it in the dark when it was raining, I've also heard from tourists who didn't understand what ANPR is or that "fine" meant £100, and I've heard from other Tesla drivers who did see it in the daylight and thought it was a warning to non Tesla drivers. They thought it inconceivable that a Tesla driver should be penalised.
If that's not enough - ParkingEye rejected my appeal - despite the fact that they already knew I was charging a Tesla.
What exaclty is the point of registering? The ANPR system does that for you, and it automatically recognises that your car is a Tesla. It also verifies that you have not stayed in the car park all day. The only result of this spurious registration process is that some Tesla drivers get caught out. The ANPR system spots non Tesla drivers, and any Tesla drivers who overstay, the registration process is redundant.