UMC errors related to specific location, frustrated

[dsm363]

It is still an issue with your office if you can use that UMC at multiple other locations with no issue. If you 'must' charge at work and it is a long term issue then yes, install a J1772 station. That way you can leave your UMC in the car.

Tesla sent an electrician? Didn't realize they did this. If a Tesla hired electrician said the car is the issue what did Tesla service say when you told them?

Again, have you called your service center and talked with the manager or ownership?

 

[Lloyd]

I had an issue some time ago where a co-generation plant down the road (2 miles) from me was throwing spikes into the system. Everything ran normally in my house, but prevented ANY ev from charging for more than about 10 minutes. I had to call the power company to put a monitor on my line. They found the problem and corrected it with the co-gen company. I never contacted Tesla as it was evident to me that it was a "power" problem, and not with Tesla.

 

[hcsharp]

... My electrician says it is not the power and if another device is interfering with it then it is the car's fault because everything else is UL approved.

UL approval is 99% testing for safety, not for compatibility with your electrical service.

These regulations are in place just for this reason....imagine having a solar system installed in your house and when it is on the car won't charge. The PV inverter is both CE and UL approved and has passed both emissions and susceptibility testing. The car hasn't. Are you still going to blame the PV inverter?

In fact many people have been unable to charge their Tesla (and other EVs) from older or poor quality solar system inverters that had UL and CE markings. The same is true of a lot of generators. UL and CE testing generally have little to do with functionality and a lot to do with safety.

The city electrical inspector likely won't even allow me to plug in the car because it isn't UL marked...it's the law! Whoever said that since it is a vehicle it is exempt is mistaken...these are local codes and have not been altered for Tesla's or Nissan's sake. If someone has a copy of the 2014 NEC and can post an excerpt that states that vehicle charging equipment shall be exempt from UL harmonized standards, I would like to see it.

I don't think you are correct about the law. Do you really think Tesla sold tens of thousands of cars and told people to plug them in illegally?

I have to give you credit for one thing. Pointing out that the Model S is a bit more sensitive to dirty power than most (all?) other EVs. I wouldn't give up and sell the car, though. Try the filters that some have suggested. Try finding a temporary charging solution until you can charge on 240v at home. See if an HPWC would be better at work. I don't blame you for being upset because you paid a lot of money for a car that's now difficult to charge, but consider that it may not be Tesla's fault, and you may have to try some other solutions, at least temporarily.

 

[rainmaking]

It is still an issue with your office if you can use that UMC at multiple other locations with no issue. If you 'must' charge at work and it is a long term issue then yes, install a J1772 station. That way you can lean your UMC in the car.

Tesla sent an electrician? Didn't realize they did this. If a Tesla hired electrician said the car is the issue what did Tesla service say when you told them?

Again, have you called your service center and talked with the manager or ownership?

They sent an electrician twice and that is how it got elevated to someone in California. After some back and forth troubleshooting I was told that they would figure out the problem 'even if it meant flying to Florida'. A week or so later I got the email stating it was my problem.

 

[dsm363]

They sent an electrician twice and that is how it got elevated to someone in California. After some back and forth troubleshooting I was told that they would figure out the problem 'even if it meant flying to Florida'. A week or so later I got the email stating it was my problem.

Is it just possible maybe they are right? If the power at your office really is that bad there is little Tesla can do. This is a temporary problem anyway was you'll have charging at work. Can you not install a 14-50 at your current house even if you are leaving soon? If this is really causing you this much angst and that would solve your problem then it is worth a few hundred bucks.

 

[pgiralt]

There is nothing wrong with the power at my office.

If there is nothing "wrong" there is at the very least something "different"

Tesla sent an electrician twice and he said it was the car (or UMC).

Exactly what did they say? Do you have any report or documentation from them?

My electrician says it is not the power and if another device is interfering with it then it is the car's fault because everything else is UL approved.

Just because something is UL approved doesn't suddenly make it immune to misbehaving or malfunctioning. Obviously there is something different in your environment and you're going to have to figure out what that is.

The city electrical inspector likely won't even allow me to plug in the car because it isn't UL marked...it's the law! Whoever said that since it is a vehicle it is exempt is mistaken...these are local codes and have not been altered for Tesla's or Nissan's sake. If someone has a copy of the 2014 NEC and can post an excerpt that states that vehicle charging equipment shall be exempt from UL harmonized standards, I would like to see it.

I will turn this back on you and ask you to quote the part of the NEC that says that every device connected to a NEMA14-50 outlet must be listed (their terminology for having a mark from a certified testing lab - not necessarily the UL). I don't think you will find anything like this in the NEC, but I haven't read the whole thing so I may be mistaken. Obviously this is not illegal because Tesla would have been stopped long ago. When my inspector came to inspect my 14-50 outlet, he had similar concerns about lack of listing markings, but after discussing it with Tesla, he passed the inspection, so they must have told him something to help him understand the law.

I have tried 120V charging from outlets in different parts of the building and fed from different panels all with the same result.

What kind of building is this? You mentioned 208 so it must be a commercial 3-phase service. Does the building have 480/277 coming in and then transformers that step that down to 208? Don't know why that would make a difference, but I was curious. What kind of business is this? What kind of equipment is in the building and neighboring businesses?

Charge cable fault is what comes up in the car, and yes Tesla tried three other UMC's. When on the 208 outlet the voltage is around 213 until the failure.

So are you saying that it does charge successfully for some time before failing? If so, how long does it work for before the failure? Would still really like to know what the LED on the UMC looks like when the failure happens.

Absolutely nothing happens on the line side at this moment....no fluctuation other than the one or so volt rise when the car stops charging.

Well, obviously *something* happens because the UMC is not just randomly deciding to not work at this one location. How are you measuring the voltage at the time the problem happens? I'd look to see if something strange is going on with the neutral or ground at the time

Because of the physical panel and outlet layout there is little room to play with line filtering, but I will study that more.

This is good advice and I think you should look into it as well.

If I used a J1772 charging station, wouldn't I still need to plug in the UMC?

No - you will just need the J1772 to Tesla adaptor that came with your car. This is a passive device that just converts one plug to another.

 

[rainmaking]

Here is a UL document that is quite clear about requirements in the NEC:

 

[TexasEV]

Your UMC works elsewhere, Tesla sent 3 UMCs to try at your building and all failed, and you say Tesla was just "going through the motions" of trying to help? What more did you want them to do? Your attack on Tesla was just over the top, regardless of this being an enthusiast site or not. At some point you need to accept the problem is with the power in that one specific building, and UL on other equipment has nothing to do with it. 40,000 cars are charging just fine IF there aren't significant voltage fluctuations.

It sounds like you haven't educated yourself much about charging if you didn't know you that charging from J1772 stations with the supplied adapter doesn't use the UMC. Surely there is a J1772 charging station somewhere you can charge temporarily while your house is getting ready.

 

[pgiralt]

Here is a UL document that is quite clear about requirements in the NEC:

Section 625 of the NEC is very clear that it applies to "hard-wired conductive connections of battery charging equipment" The UMC is not hard-wired, so that entire section of the NEC does not apply.

 

[rainmaking]

The adaptor I have still needs the UMC in the middle. Yes, something is different but meets code and approvals. As for UL being for safety, it all depends on what kind of device. If you contract with UL to list/mark a device the first step is to figure out the applicable standards based on the device you are trying to mark. It is also for functionality and interoperability with other things to insure problems like this don't happen.

 

[bonnie]

The adaptor I have still needs the UMC in the middle.

What adapter do you have??? Could you post a picture of that? Both ends.

 

[pgiralt]

The adaptor I have still needs the UMC in the middle. Yes, something is different but meets code and approvals. As for UL being for safety, it all depends on what kind of device. If you contract with UL to list/mark a device the first step is to figure out the applicable standards based on the device you are trying to mark. It is also for functionality and interoperability with other things to insure problems like this don't happen.

Again, you're assuming that everything in the building is operating correctly. Things break and start operating outside of the tested standards. You didn't answer any of my questions so hard for me to give you any more help.

As for the adaptor, you should have one of these:

Shop Tesla Gear SAE J1772

One side goes to the car, the other side to the J1772 EVSE.

 

[dsm363]

The adaptor I have still needs the UMC in the middle. Yes, something is different but meets code and approvals. As for UL being for safety, it all depends on what kind of device. If you contract with UL to list/mark a device the first step is to figure out the applicable standards based on the device you are trying to mark. It is also for functionality and interoperability with other things to insure problems like this don't happen.

Pgiralt brought up some good questions if you could answer those.

 

[rainmaking]

If there is nothing "wrong" there is at the very least something "different"

Exactly what did they say? Do you have any report or documentation from them?

Their report states that there is nothing wrong with customer's wiring, and there are no abnormalities on the line at the time of failure.

Just because something is UL approved doesn't suddenly make it immune to misbehaving or malfunctioning. Obviously there is something different in your environment and you're going to have to figure out what that is.

I will turn this back on you and ask you to quote the part of the NEC that says that every device connected to a NEMA14-50 outlet must be listed (their terminology for having a mark from a certified testing lab - not necessarily the UL). I don't think you will find anything like this in the NEC, but I haven't read the whole thing so I may be mistaken. Obviously this is not illegal because Tesla would have been stopped long ago. When my inspector came to inspect my 14-50 outlet, he had similar concerns about lack of listing markings, but after discussing it with Tesla, he passed the inspection, so they must have told him something to help him understand the law.

What kind of building is this? You mentioned 208 so it must be a commercial 3-phase service. Does the building have 480/277 coming in and then transformers that step that down to 208? Don't know why that would make a difference, but I was curious. What kind of business is this? What kind of equipment is in the building and neighboring businesses?

Light industrial, we have lots of equipment with motor controls. Our main transformer is 208. We are the most industrial power user in the area.

So are you saying that it does charge successfully for some time before failing? If so, how long does it work for before the failure? Would still really like to know what the LED on the UMC looks like when the failure happens.

As I stated in another post, usually immediately but occasionally a minute or two. Once about an hour...

Well, obviously *something* happens because the UMC is not just randomly deciding to not work at this one location. How are you measuring the voltage at the time the problem happens? I'd look to see if something strange is going on with the neutral or ground at the time

I used a Fluke scopemeter set to trigger on any event.

This is good advice and I think you should look into it as well.

No - you will just need the J1772 to Tesla adaptor that came with your car. This is a passive device that just converts one plug to another.

 

[dsm363]

I think your answer got lost inside the quote.

 

[rainmaking]

Section 625 of the NEC is very clear that it applies to "hardUMC red conductive connections of battery charging equipment" The UMC is not hard-wired, so that entire section of the NEC does not apply.

The language about section 625.16 seems pretty clear to me that it would cover the UMC unless your mind is made up that Tesla is right here.

 

[pgiralt]

What are you measuring with the fluke? Are you just measuring hot to hot or are you measuring the ground at all?

Is your business a 24/7 shop or does the equipment shut down in the evenings? Wondering what would happen if you try charging after hours. Does it work better when the industrial gear is down?

 

[dsm363]

Well your choices are pretty clear. The UMC works every single place except work. You can figure out what the issue is with your power, install an EVSE, upgrade your home charging or sell the car. Or take the car and UMC to a service center and have them check it out.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Have you tried to get a different Tesla to charge at your building?

From the symptoms mentioned, if there is a Tesla problem, the problem could be the charger in the car itself. Nothing to do with the UMC(s). Easy way to check is to get another Tesla Model S to charge at your work.

You know, you have been a very hard person to help. You charge into this forum with post #1 being a rant against Tesla. You don't provide anywhere NEAR all the information you have. When challenged by people trying to help, you then dribble out new information (like 3 UMCs have been tried). Frankly, I'm now done trying to help you. You really are an *******, even if you might have a valid problem.

 

[GoBlue88]

Still scratching my head trying to figure out exactly what you think Tesla should do about the bad power in your employer's building.