Understanding Destination Charger Speeds

[Buster1]

Can anyone enlighten me? I am trying to understand how destination chargers work with regards to expected speed of charging.

Looking on the Tesla webpage map at different destination chargers I might consider on some of my trips, I see that they list a rated kW. Some are 8kW, others are 16kW...and I've seen a few that said 11kW. They don't talk about Amperage or anything else I think I might understand.

Are these level 1, 2, or even 3? How fast or long will I need to charge there? Is there a way to predict the miles per hour of charge I might get while using one of these?

Thanks!

 

[Veritas1980]

I would assume they are all level 2, never heard otherwise.

But it is quite simple to calculate approx. charging time. 11kW charger charges 11kW/hr.
So if you have a 90 kWh battery and you need to charge 100% of the battery it is 90/11 = 8,18 hrs.

If you need to charge from 30-90% it is (60%*90 kWh) / 11 = 4,9 hrs.

The miles you get will of course depend on your average Wh/mile usage, which again depends on the weight on your right foot.

 

[Gwgan]

A Tesla wall connector is a Level 2 but could be on either a 50 amp or 100 amp breaker circuits. The 50 amp is no faster than a NEMA 14-50 and the 100 amp can max out at your car AC charger”s capacity (48, 72, or 80 amps). The website refers to 60 and 90 amp circuits but how common is 60? The wall connector can max out a car’s 48 amp charger on a 60 amp circuit, but slightly less when on a 50. Multiple wall connectors should be on a 100 amp circuit but a single one can manage with 90 amps. Most Destination Tesla wall connectors I have used we’re on 50 amp circuits but my home unit is on a 100 amp line.

“ Tesla Wall Connector installed on a 60 amp / 240 volt circuit breaker will achieve the maximum charge rate of 11.5 kW for 75 kWh configured vehicles.
A Tesla Wall Connector installed on a 90 amp / 240 volt circuit breaker will achieve the maximum charge rate of 17.2 kW for a 100 kWh configured vehicle.”

That wording is a bit misleading in an effort to simplify the relationship between circuit size and car battery size. It looks like the onboard charger capacity has been removed from the specs listing on the website. The miles/hr charge rate depends on the efficiency of the car and the charge power but the charge power depends on the circuit capacity and the AC charger in the car. The efficiency varies between models and battery sizes. The 90 and 100kWh battery cars have had a 72 amp AC onboard charger option, some earlier Model S have dual 40 amp onboard chargers for a maximum capacity of 80 amps. Other models have had a single 40 or 48 amp onboard charger. To be precise you would need to know the circuit size and the car specs, but precision is not that import when using Destination Charging.

To make it even simpler: 110V circuit is 3 mi/hr, 240V is about 30 mi/hr on a small circuit and almost 60 mi/hr on a large circuit but only with a big AC car charger. Even simpler: 240V will get you a full charge while you sleep, 110V can, but only if you can park the car over a long weekend.

 

[Jays200]

“ Tesla Wall Connector installed on a 60 amp / 240 volt circuit breaker will achieve the maximum charge rate of 11.5 kW for 75 kWh configured vehicles.
A Tesla Wall Connector installed on a 90 amp / 240 volt circuit breaker will achieve the maximum charge rate of 17.2 kW for a 100 kWh configured vehicle.”

To make it even simpler: 110V circuit is 3 mi/hr, 240V is about 30 mi/hr on a small circuit and almost 60 mi/hr on a large circuit but only with a big AC car charger. Even simpler: 240V will get you a full charge while you sleep, 110V can, but only if you can park the car over a long weekend.

Surely you are only referencing a small part of the world called the USA. A much larger part of the planet uses native single or 3 phase 240v and my home Tesla charger can supply 3 phase, 32amps at 240volts for 22kW. This is only limited by my on board charger being maxxed at 24amps thus, depending on line voltage, this can result in up to 18kW which is directly proportional to the size of my 100kWh pack because tapering only occurs within the last 4-5%.

18kW is approx 73km/hr and the older dual charger units at the full 22kW can get 100km/hr

 

[kort677]

I look at it differently, I want to know how many miles can be put into the car per hour. at home using my UMC I get 26-28 miles into the car per hour. at most l2 units 11.5 kw I get around 18 miles into the car per hour and at the large cap units I might get about 24 miles per hour.
IMHO the charge rate at a destination charger really doesn't matter since I'm usually use those for an overnight stay and in 8-10 hours of charging I can get enough range to continue my travels. L2 units are no substitute for a supercharger and I plan my long trips based on the best route using superchargers.

 

[arcus]

My experience using destination chargers falls into a consultant-type answer "it depends". One thing is what they are rated at (PlugShare etc.), another thing is the reality. The quality of "juice" your car will receive depends on how well the HPWC or L2 charger is maintained. Corrosion, exposure to elements or negligence has a detrimental effect on the maximum current you will be able to draw.

Like Kort, I prefer to look at it from the miles of range per hour of charge, so I can estimate how long will it take before I need to re-park my car and release the spot. Most of the time I was able to get 18-30 miles of range per hour when using Tesla's HPWC, 12-24 when using third party L2 charger.

 

[ccdisce]

Can anyone enlighten me? I am trying to understand how destination chargers work with regards to expected speed of charging.

Looking on the Tesla webpage map at different destination chargers I might consider on some of my trips, I see that they list a rated kW. Some are 8kW, others are 16kW...and I've seen a few that said 11kW. They don't talk about Amperage or anything else I think I might understand.

Are these level 1, 2, or even 3? How fast or long will I need to charge there? Is there a way to predict the miles per hour of charge I might get while using one of these?

Thanks!

The Destination Charging listed on the Tesla Webpage is provided using a Tesla Wall Connector and Your Charger under the back seat.
The Wall Connector provides 240VAC at X Amps which are determined by switch settings internal Wall Connector , the wire size and breaker size feeding the Wall Connector.

The best page to find this Wall Connector information IMHO is the web page found at:
Learn About Charging Equipment
Home charging installation.

A trip last week from Stone Mtn GA to Rosemary Beach FL I can appreciate the 'digging' around for Destination Charging.
Prior to leaving I had a look at the Tesla Destination Charging locations at Rosemary Beach which there was none and I would have to go to Seaside where there would be 2 Wall Connectors wired to deliver 16KW.
On the way down I stopped at the Auburn SC and the much maligned DeFuniack Springs SC where I did not have to charge but needed to do so as destination charging was to be 110V 15A in my parking area. Being a maintenance trip I had to do about 100 miles running around for food, and home maintenance bits and bobs.
The Maintenance personnel suggested suggested charging at a new Local Hotel or at a fellow Tesla Owner in the town or going into Seaside Village.

Struck Out at the Local Hotel near HWY98 and CR30 who shall remain nameless , checked at the front desk before parking in the Tesla marked slot(s) who said that the 2 Wall Connector installations were reserved for guests only. The Tesla marked slots powered by Wall Connectors were empty a the time , and were empty a couple of days later when I drove by.

Did not have a chance to find the local Tesla Owner.

Drove into Seaside at 4AM 10mi away that was one almost surreal, beautiful, quiet with a fantastic everyday lighting show in the darkest time of the morning, the Christmas lighting was not yet up.
At Seaside were the 2 Tesla Wall Connectors and a Clipper Creek EVSE, I used the Tesla slot nearest 30A which delivered charge at 72A to my 100D for 1hr.
Moved to the Clipper Creek and plugged in using the J1772 Adapter from the UMC kit which delivered 16A for 15min just to check out the adapter from the UMC Kit when I stopped it and went home for breakfast as the local restaurants would not open until 8AM.

Good luck.

 

[TexasEV]

The OP is in Las Vegas, so I don't think he cares about 3-phase power in the rest of the world which will just confuse him.

Perhaps the reason HPWCs are shown with kW rating rather than amps is because many are installed on 208V lines rather than 240V that people are used to at home. So for a charging station of 40A, if it's on a 208V circuit that would be 8 kW but on a 240V circuit that would be 9.6 (rounded to 10) kW. Most are on 208V circuit, so when you see 8 kW that's 40A, and 16 kW is 80A. Remember V * A = watts

Destination charging stations are the same HPWCs that you would install in your garage. To estimate mileage, do a ratio of what you get at home with whatever kW setup you have to the stated kW of the HPWC. If you use a NEMA 14-50 outlet instead of a HPWC, that's 240V*40A = 9.6 kW

 

[ecarfan]

Surely you are only referencing a small part of the world called the USA.

Yes, that person was only referring to the US, but the OP is in the US and the answer provided by @Gwgan seems appropriate to me.

 

[Rocky_H]

Destination charging stations are the same HPWCs that you would install in your garage. To estimate mileage, do a ratio of what you get at home with whatever kW setup you have to the stated kW of the HPWC. If you use a NEMA 14-50 outlet instead of a HPWC, that's 240V*40A = 9.6 kW

Running a little ratio from a known charging data point is what I always do and is pretty easy. I go from my point of 9.6kW at home gets me 29 miles per hour. Scale it as needed. So if you're looking at 8kW, just take 8 / 9.6 and multiply that by the 29 miles per hour, etc.

 

[jbcarioca]

Everyone is forgetting that Destination Chargers are always Level 2, thus will always have nominal voltage of 200 or more. The actual voltage will depend on load and other factors. In the US the nominal voltage will vary from 208 to 240, depending on source of power. The nominal amperage will vary from 24 to 80 depending on connection breaker size. You need to know these factors before you'll know what actual charge rate you will have.

Sadly, everything about BEV charge rates comes out to be "it depends".

Almost everyone who has a Tesla these days really does not need to know all that. A home installation rarely really needs to be more than 208/30, the lowest power standard "220" household connection which provides 24 amps continuously, if loads are minimal. Many countries are different and some vary tremendously within a country.

Every generalization about this subject has exceptions. There are two choices:

1) learn all about electricity and bore your co-BEV drivers with your vast knowledge;
2) ignore all that and stick to Superchargers (they have a host of particular quirks too) and outlets that accept the plugs that come with your car plus Destination Chargers. You'll still need to know a bit about voltage and amperage, but lots less than otherwise.

FWIW, I have a good friend who has 30,000 miles on a one year old Tesla in California. That friend barely knows the difference between level 1 and level 2 and does not care to know. The home plug is a NEMA 14-50 but said owner does not know that. The J-1772 plug is used weekly but the owners does not know that either. What's more there is no real reason to need to know that any more.

Many of us who own Tesla are nerdish, and nerdish people must have technologies to memorize. Thus most of us do that. The Australians among us need to know multiple phase differences, connector differences, amperage differences and more. A handful of European countries have such issues as do Brazilians. If you are in one of those countries you'll already know "Nerdish" even if you don't wish to do so, or else you don't travel much or have a significant other who's fluent in "Nerdish".

One day we may have simple electrical connections. That will happen the same year we solve the problem of world hunger.

 

[Rocky_H]

Everyone is forgetting...

No, not everyone is. @TexasEV already explained that the power in kW is what scales with the charging speed.

 

[Missile Toad]

The charging speed varies (here in the U.S.) depending on what kind of charger configuration is in your car. Here are the four 'flavors', that Tesla has made so far (that I know of):

40A Classic Model S
48A Model X; regular Model S; Model 3
72A Upgraded charger
80A Classic Model S w/ dual chargers​

Assuming each station is setup for 240v, use this table as a guide, to know your MPH added:
........10kW.....16kW <-- Wall Connector (WC) rating
40A.....29.......29
48A.....29.......35
72A.....29.......55
80A.....29.......61
^ Car's internal charger rating

For what its worth, I track newly added WC during the last 3 months. Roughly 60-70% of the added WC are the 16kW variety.

 

[scottm]

Can anyone enlighten me? I am trying to understand how destination chargers work with regards to expected speed of charging.

Looking on the Tesla webpage map at different destination chargers I might consider on some of my trips, I see that they list a rated kW. Some are 8kW, others are 16kW...and I've seen a few that said 11kW. They don't talk about Amperage or anything else I think I might understand.

Are these level 1, 2, or even 3? How fast or long will I need to charge there? Is there a way to predict the miles per hour of charge I might get while using one of these?

Thanks!

Don't forget that your car's destination charging capability is ultimately limited by its own on-board charger/s.

If you have a car with a 40A charger, you can suck only 9.6 kW from a destination charger that might ultimately be able to deliver more.

Cars that come with 32A on-board charger (low end Model 3, I think) you can get only 7.68 kW from the same destination charger.

If you have an older car (like mine) with dual on-board chargers, I can get 19.2 kW from that same charger so long as it has been provisioned with the bigger power line. It's rare for me to find any public / destination L2 charger capable of more than about 14 kW. Most other electric cars on the market cannot even consume this much L2 with their best on-board charging capability, so you can't blame destination owners for not wanting to put in heavier lines out to their chargers just yet.

When you use a Supercharger, it doesn't matter what your on-board charger is because it gets bypassed. Now, it's your battery technology in the car that is the limiting factor.. but who cares at SC speeds ?!? It's always pretty darn fast.

@Missile Toad beat me to the punch with the on-board limitations... as I was posting this.

 

[Rocky_H]

You've got a little problem with your table there, @Missile Toad . If you were assuming the 240V and that number of amps, the miles per hour charging rates would be about right. The 10kW and 16kW are referring to the installed wall connectors, right? 16kW supply would max at about 48 miles per hour, so regardless of what version of onboard charger you have, you can't get 55 or 61 from it.

 

[Missile Toad]

...16kW supply would max at about 48 miles per hour, so regardless of what version of onboard charger you have, you can't get 55 or 61 from it.

All I know @Rocky_H, is that on Sunday, my car reported 61 MPH using a 80A/247V wall connector. My Classic Model S 70D has the upgraded dual charger installed about 3 months ago. Maybe, Tesla has better components than they had back in 2016?

The 3rd line, I infer by cutting out 10% based on my data point I collected Sunday. So, it would be nice to have somebody corroborate what the 72A on-board charger delivers in MPH (is it what I infer -- 55MPH?).

I'm going to double check one of my numbers tomorrow. Here is what I'm running with (for now):
........10kW.....16kW <-- Wall Connector (WC) rating
40A.....29.......29
48A.....29.......35
72A.....29.......55
80A.....__.......61
^ Car's internal charger rating

 

[Rocky_H]

All I know @Rocky_H, is that on Sunday, my car reported 61 MPH using a 80A/247V wall connector.

That's exactly what I was pointing out. 80 times 247 is 19.76kW, which is a lot higher than 16kW.

 

[Buster1]

Awesome info, thanks guys!

How can I find out what kind of charger I have onboard? Just ordered my car two weeks ago. Wondering what they are putting in them now.

 

[Missile Toad]

OK folks. I trusted the Tesla DB to tell me that the site, "Kent Moore Cabinets"
is 'up to 16kW'. There are sooooo many errors in the Tesla DB.

More data from my session with the so-called 16kW site:

80A * 247V = 19.8kW
which yielded the 61 MPH that I stated above.
​

Suffice it to say, that a good rule of thumb, is that Amps * Volts * 3 = MPH -- and you can never 100% trust the data from Tesla (there are worse examples... don't get me started about the errors between the 'theoretical' Tesla DB and real life wall charger sites).

 

[TexasEV]

Awesome info, thanks guys!

How can I find out what kind of charger I have onboard? Just ordered my car two weeks ago. Wondering what they are putting in them now.

The 70 kWh battery has 48A charger.
The 100 kWh battery has 72A charger.

You used to have an option of which charger to order (48A standard, or upgrade to 72A) but apparently that was too confusing for the masses.