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Understanding PGE/SVCE electricity bills/TrueUP

SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,185
9,913
SF Bay Area
Here’s the latest links to the PG&E EV2A (combined home/EV charging) rate plan info: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV2 (Sch).pdf

Note that Sheets 2 snd 4 have been updated as of March 1, 2021: Sheet 2 (winter/summer rates) and Sheet 4 (for Direct Access And Community Choice Aggregation—CCA—customers like Silicon Valley Clean Energy etc.)

For other PG&E rate schedules: Making sense of the rates

——

Here’s Silicon Valley Clean Energy’s current posrate schedule for Residential customers:

note:
Column Footnote 1 — SVCE Generation Rates, without added PG&E fees, effective 5/1/2020
Column Footnote 2 — SVCE Generation Service reflects our price for Generation, with added PG&E fees (PCIA and Franchise Fees), effective 5/1/2020
Column Footnote 3 — PG&E Generation service rate effective 5/1/2020

I Noticed from the footnote effective dates these are from May of the previous year but PG&E’s rate chart was updated in March 2021. I’ll call them on Monday and see if there should be an update to their rate spreadsheet.
 
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SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,185
9,913
SF Bay Area
Just as a follow up, I contacted SVCE today and called their attention to the updated PG&E Sheets 2 and 4 (effective as of 3/1/21) and they’ll let the person who prepares the SVCE comparison spreadsheet check theirs to see what changes there are. The SVCE rep told me that their generation rates are basically kept at 4% less than PG&E’s across the board.
 
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SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,185
9,913
SF Bay Area
The updated rates as of 3/1/2021 are there on their site.


I got that link from the "Click here" link on the Residential Rates page here:
I clicked there a few days ago and printed the tables out and the footnote dates were all as of 2020. The rep at SVCE checked herself when I called today and she saw the 2020 dates as well, so they must have updated after I called. Also notice instead of 4 spreadsheet pages for SVCE rates it’s now on 3 pages. Nice they are so responsive. How refreshing!
 

holeydonut

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Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,111
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East Bay NorCal
Holy crap... I spent an hour today looking through my two PG&E bills (one with the blue header and the black and white one). It finally clicked for me that the black and white one only had the Distribution, Transmission, and other Crap under NEM2-PS and EV2A. The Generation NEM was reflected on the "normal" PG&E bill. It finally makes sense!

So I have to add the NEM balance from both bills to get the true NEM balance. WHYYYYYY PG&E whyyyyyyy is this so difficult to understand??!!

On the plus side all their math checks out. It's just like... uggghhhh.

Who was going to host the TED talk on how to read your electricity bill again? We really need that TED talk...
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
8,245
6,017
Merced, CA
Holy crap... I spent an hour today looking through my two PG&E bills (one with the blue header and the black and white one). It finally clicked for me that the black and white one only had the Distribution, Transmission, and other Crap under NEM2-PS and EV2A. The Generation NEM was reflected on the "normal" PG&E bill. It finally makes sense!

So I have to add the NEM balance from both bills to get the true NEM balance. WHYYYYYY PG&E whyyyyyyy is this so difficult to understand??!!

On the plus side all their math checks out. It's just like... uggghhhh.

Who was going to host the TED talk on how to read your electricity bill again? We really need that TED talk...

The B&W bill has everything. The blue bill is only there to track your current minimum billable $10 / month and any one time credits that are given out.

At your true-up, the $10 / month ($120) will be applied to any true-up balance (minus NBCs) that you have. At least they don't treat it as a use it or lose it on a per month basis. The $120 could be applied to $120 of usage if all that usage was from a single month. So whatever your net balance is, if it's below $120, you'll lose your excess generation which will be turned into a wholesale payout at something like 3 cents / kwh.
 

holeydonut

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Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,111
1,495
East Bay NorCal
The B&W bill has everything. The blue bill is only there to track your current minimum billable $10 / month and any one time credits that are given out.

At your true-up, the $10 / month ($120) will be applied to any true-up balance (minus NBCs) that you have. At least they don't treat it as a use it or lose it on a per month basis. The $120 could be applied to $120 of usage if all that usage was from a single month. So whatever your net balance is, if it's below $120, you'll lose your excess generation which will be turned into a wholesale payout at something like 3 cents / kwh.

I’m on a CCA so PG&E’s black and white bill shows Generation kWh but always turns it to $0.00 when doing math. It doesn’t really make this clear but it is clear to me now the total credit I have is the sum of Generation credits from the normal bill plus the credit on the B&W.

I really thought I was losing value based on all the banked kWh I’ve sent PG&E… but adding the two credits resolves a lot.
 
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miimura

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Aug 21, 2013
6,487
6,245
Los Altos, CA
Let me know when you figure it out, I even called PG&E and went over it with them. I do not think they want you to figure it out.
What don't you understand? I think there are enough of us here who have looked at it long enough that we know what's going on with the PG&E billing.
 

holeydonut

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Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,111
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East Bay NorCal
What don't you understand? I think there are enough of us here who have looked at it long enough that we know what's going on with the PG&E billing.


That's why we need a Ted Talk haha. For real, I've priced securitizations with multiple classes of notes and a vertical risk retention strip that had less BS than what I'm having to deal with reading my goddamn energy bill. I don't how the hell the CPUC allows this level of BS to land in homeowner mailboxes.

Edit, yes this is hyperbole. But this black and white PG&E bill for NEM2-PS on EV2A is still nutso.
 
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Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
3,999
1,448
Sonoma, California
That's why we need a Ted Talk haha. For real, I've priced securitizations with multiple classes of notes and a vertical risk retention strip that had less BS than what I'm having to deal with reading my goddamn energy bill. I don't how the hell the CPUC allows this level of BS to land in homeowner mailboxes.

Edit, yes this is hyperbole. But this black and white PG&E bill for NEM2-PS on EV2A is still nutso.
I agree but again they can do anything they want, they are an out of control monopoly. The black and white bill does not need to be that confusing.
 

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
3,999
1,448
Sonoma, California
What don't you understand? I think there are enough of us here who have looked at it long enough that we know what's going on with the PG&E billing.
Thanks for your offer to help, I’m going to wait until I get my June bill. When PG&E did my SGIP they switched me from E6 to TOUC and forgot to keep me on my CCA so that messed it up.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,487
6,245
Los Altos, CA
Thanks for your offer to help, I’m going to wait until I get my June bill. When PG&E did my SGIP they switched me from E6 to TOUC and forgot to keep me on my CCA so that messed it up.
When I got my Powerwall PTO in 2018, it took PG&E two more billing cycles to get the billing correct. They ended up backing out those two months and reissuing bills for them when they issued the third month. Of course, that PTO also triggered a new true-up to close out the partial pre-powerwall year.
 

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
3,999
1,448
Sonoma, California
When I got my Powerwall PTO in 2018, it took PG&E two more billing cycles to get the billing correct. They ended up backing out those two months and reissuing bills for them when they issued the third month. Of course, that PTO also triggered a new true-up to close out the partial pre-powerwall year.
Same for me, they did re do the 3 months prior billing but without the CCA so we will see how it looks for June.
 

Redhill_qik

Member
Aug 16, 2020
313
222
South SF Bay, California
Who was going to host the TED talk on how to read your electricity bill again? We really need that TED talk...
I guess that was me from earlier in the thread :), but no I'm not going to go to that extent. I do want to create a something more permanent that my prior posts in this thread, but there are so many variables with PGE vs PGE+CCA, the different TOU plans, PCIA vintages for CCA, and then how each CCA handles generation costs and annual true-up payment if you are a net generator.

I think that the B&W bills are the way they are for full transparency of all of the individual tariff components, but it just makes it a major mess to sort out. This is even more confusing if you are only looking at the tariff bundle rates instead of the unbundled breakdown for each component which is absolute necessity if you are with a CCA.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,111
1,495
East Bay NorCal
I guess that was me from earlier in the thread :), but no I'm not going to go to that extent. I do want to create a something more permanent that my prior posts in this thread, but there are so many variables with PGE vs PGE+CCA, the different TOU plans, PCIA vintages for CCA, and then how each CCA handles generation costs and annual true-up payment if you are a net generator.

I think that the B&W bills are the way they are for full transparency of all of the individual tariff components, but it just makes it a major mess to sort out. This is even more confusing if you are only looking at the tariff bundle rates instead of the unbundled breakdown for each component which is absolute necessity if you are with a CCA.


Yeah, I made a Google Doc that took every unbundled rate (out to 5 significant digits...) to cross-multiply against the whatever kWh is tracked by PG&E for the B&W bill as well as the generation credit with MCE.

I'm able to get within about a penny of each monthly bill type (B&W and Colorful header). The crazy thing is the rates I entered actually match the EV2-A submission to the CPUC. Like whaaaaaa... stuff actually tied for the things I could match! I was flabbergasted. I really thought PG&E was burying weird stuff in there heh.

The only thing that doesn't tie is something called a "Component type DIA" which seem to just show up and tag a few cents here and there at a rate that fluctuates each month. Assuming the NBCs get re-applied in the manner that PG&E explained to me over the phone, it means there is some rhyme and reason around their math. But how they expect rate payers to make sense of this is beyond me. Most people can't even reconcile their credit card statements; this PG&E rate thing is like seven deviations of stupid away from normal day to day consumer stuff.

If we don't do a TED talk, at least we can do a webinar hah.
 

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
3,999
1,448
Sonoma, California
To me it is very frustrating, before paired storage the bill was very straight forward. It is like Pacific Graft and Extortion says oh you want to save money and have battery back up we will show you.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
8,245
6,017
Merced, CA
Has anyone else crafted a letter over this issue to their politicians? I want to write to my state assemblyman but feel that first my understanding isn't as deep as it should be on how the utilities are trying to screw solar customers, and second my word smithing abilities aren't that great.

It would be awesome if there was already a letter that summed up the key points that we could all just send out to our representatives.
 
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