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Understanding PGE/SVCE electricity bills/TrueUP

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,410
450
95762
The NEM2 tariff says


I can't find a copy of either of these two docs. The E-4792 shows up in google search, but it won't download for some reason. I did find some discussion about the D.16-01-044 that showed a tug-of-war on the meaning on "metered interval" with mentions of instantaneous measurement. The PG&E numbers show that it definitely isn't 60 minutes, so it is likely either 15 or 5 minutes.
Pretty sure I found it was hourly and posted a link in a different thread a while back. Can't find it now. Where do you see that it is not hourly?
 

BGbreeder

Member
Jun 19, 2020
365
227
Bay Area
The NEM2 tariff says


I can't find a copy of either of these two docs. The E-4792 shows up in google search, but it won't download for some reason. I did find some discussion about the D.16-01-044 that showed a tug-of-war on the meaning on "metered interval" with mentions of instantaneous measurement. The PG&E numbers show that it definitely isn't 60 minutes, so it is likely either 15 or 5 minutes.
E-4792 downloads for me from https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M163/K978/163978119.PDF
From therein;
"The metered interval is the time period over which energy data is measured. Residential metered intervals are typically one hour; non-residential are typically 15 minutes."
(my bold)
 

Redhill_qik

Member
Aug 16, 2020
313
222
South SF Bay, California
E-4792 downloads for me from https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M163/K978/163978119.PDF
From therein;
"The metered interval is the time period over which energy data is measured. Residential metered intervals are typically one hour; non-residential are typically 15 minutes."
(my bold)
That links works for me as well, something strange must have been happening with the Google search return click thru links.

That footnote says "typically" which does not mean that it is required or uniform for all IOUs. Elsewhere in the document is this section.

We also find that the IOUs’ proposed approach to bill customers based on the metered interval of their otherwise applicable rate schedule is reasonable and reject the Joint Solar Parties’ request to guarantee that all residential customers will be billed NBCs at an hourly interval. The IOUs shall assess NBCs on all Resolution E-4792 June 23, 2016 PG&E AL 4802-E/A, SCE AL 3371-E, SDG&E AL 2860-E/A/EC7 19 NEM successor tariff customers based on the metered interval associated with their applicable rate schedule.
If the CPUC wanted a uniform hourly metered interval then it is extremely weird that they would reject the "Joint Solar Parties" proposal to make it hourly and then rely on the IOUs implementing it as "typically" hourly.

Pretty sure I found it was hourly and posted a link in a different thread a while back. Can't find it now. Where do you see that it is not hourly?
I see that the PG&E black bill total for NBC grid imports are always greater than the sum of the hourly positive numbers from the Green Button data by 5-13 kWh per bill. The only explanation for the difference is that the metered interval is less than an hour.

IMHO, this is the right way to calculate the total amount of gird imports. If you consumed 2 kWh in the first 30 minutes and then exported 2 kWh in the second 30 minutes this should not result in 0 kWh of NBCs hitting our bills.
 
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solardudesf

Member
Jul 24, 2019
64
10
San Francisco, CA
Hi All,
Just finished my second full year of solar power with PG&E. Got my second True-Up bill and I have a question about what I am seeing. When I look through the true up bill I can see that in the "True-Up Adjustment" section my total cost is:
1) PPP + ND + CAB + CAO (These add up exactly to my non-bypassable cost total)
2) RMR (Reliability Services?)
3) Franchise Fee
minus the previously billed amounts (min charges)

Last year, my RMR cost was $0, but this year it is ~$50. I know in the grand scheme of things $50 is not a big deal, but I like to know what is going on. Just feels like another money grab by PGE, but I just have no clue what it is. Do you all know what this RMR cost is? Thanks!
 
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holeydonut

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,113
1,495
East Bay NorCal
Is this a new charge that just appeared this month?

PG&E gas line 147 was near the San Bruno 💥 and was on plan for some retrofit… maybe there’s some safety management we’re paying for now?
 
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Reactions: FlatSix911

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
4,000
1,448
Sonoma, California
Is this a new charge that just appeared this month?

PG&E gas line 147 was near the San Bruno 💥 and was on plan for some retrofit… maybe there’s some safety management we’re paying for now?
No, I’m just trying to understand my stupid bill. They finally did a true up and my July bill starts new, the SMP is the monthly charge and I have no idea how they compute it.
 

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
4,000
1,448
Sonoma, California
So I just looked back at my previous monthly Black and White bill and since the true up last month the SMP charge is new it shows up on page 2 under usage and generation summary true up history. Probably have to call Pacific Graft and Extortion.
 

charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,239
271
Monterey, CA
On this bill for the month of July it shows bill charge of $-25.66 and the SMP cost of $$46.58 so my current monthly charge is $27.02.
You mean you have a true-up in essence every month? That is what you have to pay for that bill? Mine is still just straight NET metering with an almost flat minimum charge of about $10.
 

charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,239
271
Monterey, CA
No the $27.02 goes toward the true up next year, do not have to pay that but the SMP charges is something different that has not been on my B&W bill in the past only came on this month after the true up in June.
I am almost willing to bet that at true-up they will decide on the amount of total usage or over production and then what you owe on that. ;)
 

Merrill

Merrill
Jan 23, 2013
4,000
1,448
Sonoma, California
So I called PG&E about what the SMP was and after getting a supervisor to tell the person I was talking to they were having a hard time figuring it out. They tell me the $46.58 are NBC’s it is strange that until the July bill I never saw any charges for NBC’s. I had a bill credit of $25.66 so a net charge of $27.02 to be carried over til my next true up July 2022. Not sure how the NBC’s will play out when I’m not generating as much solar in the winter.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,113
1,495
East Bay NorCal
Did you all get your black and white pg&e bills for periods ending in August? I was expecting to get a bill on August 20 (usually my monthly cutoff is the 12th), but I haven't seen anything. PG&E's help line simply says I should wait. I guess I shouldn't have contacted them about the $2.97 issue for the period ending July 12 hah.
 

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