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Understanding SDG&E rates

Discussion in 'California' started by markb1, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    #1 markb1, Jun 30, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
    Update:

    Total Residential Electric Rates | San Diego Gas Electric (now includes 7/1/12 rate change)

    Latest "commodity cost", which corresponds the "generation" section of the bill: http://regarchive.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_EECC.pdf

    Original post:

    Can anyone help me understand SDG&E's rates?

    EV-TOU: http://sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_EV-TOU.pdf
    EV-TOU-2: http://sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_EV-TOU-2.pdf

    And the normal residential rates for reference: http://sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_DR.pdf

    I believe the "UDC Total" column corresponds to delivery on the bill. What it's a total of is unclear, as it is certainly not the sum of the other columns.

    Now looking at the TOU rates, I see there is barely any difference for the "UDC Total" between different times of day, which is weird. I can only assume that the generation costs must be where the variance is, but where do I look those up?

    SDG&E also has this page with a little table to show EV-TOU rates: EV Rates | San Diego Gas Electric

    I can't figure out what those rates include (delivery? generation? taxes?), or whether those are up to date. Does anyone understand this stuff?
     
  2. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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  3. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Thanks. So that web page matches the rates on the web page I linked to for EV-TOU, and the DR rates are in the ballpark of what I'm paying on my bill, so that leads me to believe that those EV-TOU rates are generation plus delivery. However, I think the DR data must be out of date, because I'm actually paying a few cents less per kWh on my latest bill, so that means the EV-TOU data might be out of date, too.

    Here are the rates from my latest bill (taxes, etc. excluded):

    Delivery:
    Baseline: .06013
    100-130%: .08259
    131-200%: .17306

    Summer Generation: .07808
     
  4. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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    @markb1, if your like me, you want to have an idea which of the 3 rate plans are going to work best with your EV: the DR, EV-TOU or EV-TOU2 (assuming you do not have solar). SDG&E just recently added "The Green Button" app to help you analize your usage and give you a projected cost to add the EV depending on which rate plan you opt for. Here's the link: The Green Button | San Diego Gas Electric
    You will need to set up an account to log in to get your data. I would save the most having a separate meter, however the upfront costs to install the second meter don't ROI for me so I am doing the whole house TOU.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    What I was planning to do was download my hourly usage history in CSV format, and plug that into a spreadsheet to compare different plans. I used to be able to download that, but now I don't see any option to download in CSV format, except in one-week chunks. Looks like I can only get the whole year in this "green button" XML format. How do you use this to project costs with different plan? It's not readily apparent.
     
  6. mcornwell

    mcornwell Active Member

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    I'm in the same boat. To confuse things even more. we have a good size PV system installed (33 x 230W panels). It's still unclear to me how the net metering would impact things if we went to TOU rates. Would we be selling power back to SDGE at the higher daytime rates if we were making more than we were using?

    Except for the 3 winter months, we were in tier 1 pricing for the last 12 months (prior to the PV system we were in tier 3 rates pretty much every month), but that was before my wife got her Volt about 3 months ago. I'm guessing the volt adds about 200 KWh per month to our bill. I don't drive too much, so I'm guessing the Tesla will also add another 200 or so KWh to the monthly bill.

    SDGE.jpg
     
  7. DrComputer

    DrComputer Member

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    Yes! That's exactly how it works. I am in Los Angeles and have a LADWP net TOU meter. If you can keep most of your power use out of the most expensive time (here it's M-F 1-5PM) then TOU can work great. I sell LADWP power at the most expensive rate from 1-5pm and buy it back at night to charge the car at the least expensive rate. In the two years since I've had my PV system I have only purchased power from LADWP at night. I have only gonenegativee on my day rates.
     
  8. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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    #8 Tommy, Jul 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012
    This is how I have analyzed my data.

    After logging into your SDG&E account, at the bottom of the opening screen click on "Analyze My Energy"

    On the next screen click on the tab "My Energy Use" (second tab line far right)

    On next screen click on the green icon lower right corner labeled "Green Button Download my Data"

    On the next screen is the option to change specific dates to export data from; change those dates to your specific time frame you are looking to analyze. The default is one year; you will need to adjust the start calendar and end calendar to match the dates you wish to analyze.

    NOTE: I remember reading on another forum the start and end dates may be off one day due to how the meter data is collected so you may need to move the dates forward/back to the dates listed on your bill to match your bill exactly.

    Click on "Export"; after several seconds of number crunching a "Your file is now available Download" will appear.

    Click on "Download" The file will be saved in .zip format

    Open the .zip file, it should be in .xml format

    Open the Green Button program already installed on your computer
    Here is the window .exe program (runs in Parallels on Mac as well): View attachment 7247

    Link to site if you want to imput data via the cloud and don't want to install program onto your computer:


    EcoDog's Green Button Calculator - Welcome


    Link to site that has other 3rd party "Green Button" programs; the EcoDog is free and no subscription, there may be others out there now as well:
    Green Button Support

    The program I use (GBC.exe) has three steps, click each one leads you to the next step

    Step One: zip code

    Step Two: questions about type of appliance you have, solar installed and EV. I answer No EV as the data screen then gives me an option to add the EV into my use so I can compare a before and after scenario.

    When you click on the third step, the date range you downloaded should be displayed.

    Either the .cvs or .xml format will work with the Green Button program. I see the .xml is only available as well now.

    Here is a screen shot of the data now "processed" by the program. View attachment 7248


    You have the option of checking/un-checking EV use or Solar panels installed to see the difference in costs based on your individual usage.

    Like I said, I share your pain!

    You mentioned the rate plan I posted was out of date, here is the link to SDG&E's archive of past rate plans plus the most current: Total Residential Electric Rates | San Diego Gas Electric
    The March 2012 rate should be accurate with what your bill shows.

    Again, hope this helps.
     
  9. DRM

    DRM Roadster #619

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    I live in San Diego and have had my roadster for a bit over two years now.

    The TOU rates combined with solar and EV's are not the great deal I had thought. I have a 5.2kW system (enough for 100% offset including EV on an annualized basis). On the non-TOU rate, I banked kWh during the day to use them up in the evenings on a 1:1 basis. When I switched to TOU earlier this year, I learned that kWh which are banked are only banked based on the electricity cost (adjusted for TOU) while the distribution cost is seperately itemized and not credited when you generate surplus solar power. So even though ~1/2 of my power consumption was super-off-peak, i am only slightly better using TOU. YMMV...
    //dan.
     
  10. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Gave the web version a try, and it rejected the "Green Button" XML file I downloaded from SDG&E. I think I'm going to end up writing my own code to covert that XML to something I can load into Excel. I did just confirm with SDG&E that the ability to download the hourly data in CSV format is now restricted to one week at a time. What a pain.

    Aha... that's very helpful! SDG&E should make this easier to find.
     
  11. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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  12. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Would it be possible for you (or anyone else with Solar and EV-TOU/EV-TOU2) to share your statement so I can see how this works? I called up SDG&E and talked to their solar/TOU department, and not even they can explain it clearly, so I think the only way I'm going to be able to understand it is by looking at a bill. Thanks!
     
  13. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    > I sell LADWP power at the most expensive rate from 1-5pm and buy it back at night to charge the car at the least expensive rate. [DrComputer]

    In WY I can only sell power to the electric coop at the wholesale rate that the coop pays to their power source, i.e. only 2 cents per kwh NOT 11 cents per kwh. Kinda takes the wind out of these sails, so to speak. But they only do the arithmetic in Jan, so by then you would have been ecstatic for x months looking at your bill & seeing 11 cents in vs 11 cents out. To me this is not worth the extra cost of shutoffs & other interconnection requirements just to get 2 cents/kwh. It would only be worth it if there is no cheaper way for an off-grid system with no batts to dump excess generation. I'm thinking of dumping to water/space heaters. Maybe there is no need to dump anything; that the panels can just sit there in the bright sun without producing & without damage. More study needed- I'm clueless.

    Also from what the PSC told me if I still had the old fashioned type of meter and was 'turning it backwards' whenever my generation exceeded my usage, the coop would never realise that I had a solar system at all. Thus one of the incentives for them to replace all meters with shiny new 'remote reading' meters. Bet they didn't tout this additional benefit when they made the replacements. The new meters can detect the synch negotiations going on when your inverter begins to pump into the grid, and somehow keeps track of both generators. I do not understand this at all, just what the PSC guy seemed to be saying.
    --
     
  14. mcornwell

    mcornwell Active Member

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    Sorry, still on regular tiered pricing. My gut tells me that because of SDGE's not very good off-peak rates, that TOU might only provide a small advantage, and isn't worth the inconvenience of worrying about when we should charge our cars. If the buy back rate for generation during peak times was better, things would be different.

    BTW, good seeing you at the store opening on Thursday...
     
  15. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Good to see, too!

    I've got my entire hourly usage data for the last year in a spreadsheet, along with estimated hourly solar production, and estimated charging consumption for my car. So as soon as I understand the rate plans, I will have a really good idea of what I would be paying SDG&E under each plan. Unfortunately, getting a complete understanding of how these TOU plans work with solar has been difficult. Sometimes I get the feeling that they don't want me to understand.
     
  16. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Well, finally got a call back from SDG&E, and I'm still no closer to understanding this. What the SDG&E representative told me directly contradicts the explanation of DR-SES that's at sdge.com. (There's no explanation on the website of how EV-TOU2 works with solar.)

    So, I reiterate my request: If you have solar and EV-TOU2, can you please let me see your bill? Same if you have DR-SES. I'll owe you a beer.
     
  17. ggr

    ggr Roadster 537, Sig P85

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    We have some such bills (EV-TOU2 and solar). PM me and we can share. Honestly, I can't figure them out.
     
  18. mcornwell

    mcornwell Active Member

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    Mark, I know Jason has solar at his house, but I'm not sure if he is on TOU.
     
  19. dadaleus

    dadaleus 4GETOIL P85#S70,FdrX,S85D

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    Hmm... finally got around to this, but the web app seems broken. I get to the drop down to pick your utility, but there are no choices. I'll email them.

    I also can't download from the link you posted above--the TMC software says it's an invalid link.

    markb1, sorry, didn't see this until now. PM me if you still want any info on my bills. But considering this is 8 months old I'm guessing you have it all figured out by now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Got the EXE working actually. Awesome app. Highly recommended for anyone on SDG&E.

    http://www.ecodoginc.com/SDGE_GB_Download.htm
     
  20. johnmodels

    johnmodels Member

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    #20 johnmodels, Mar 10, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
    I'm not sure if anyone can help because it seems like many of us have the same questions... I have a MS 85KW and a 6.3 KW solar system. Solar produces about 80% of energy used, not incl. car charging. My pool and MS use the majority of the power unless AC is needed. I just signed up for TOU-2 which starts tomorrow, the new billing cycle. My plan now is to time the charging of the MS and the pool circulation to 12 am - 5 am the super off peak hours. That will be at about $.14/ kw. My question is how much will I be credited for the energy I'm generating and not using during the peak hours during the day? If its some crappy number like $.04/kw, then I should keep the pool running during the middle of the day to offset the power generated by solar. I remember hearing that the power credited in peak hours and used during off peak hours is 2 kw to every 1 we generate. Any thoughts???

    John
     

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